Curtis: [00:00:01] you hold your son when he passes away,

Tina: Yeah

Curtis: [00:00:06] uh, something no mother on the planet wants to have to do.

Tina: Right

Curtis: but [00:00:11] then Tim says, "Babe, you gotta go back to the hospital."

Tina: Yeah.[00:00:16]

Curtis: Like,

Curtis: what in the world?

Tina: Yeah. [00:00:21] you have to go back to the hospital and I got, I gotta go take care of the [00:00:26] kids.

Tina:

Curtis: Hi, everybody. Welcome to the Run [00:00:31] to the Heart podcast. Um, today my guest, her name is Tina Allen. Tina is [00:00:36] actually one of our board members for the Michal Foundation. And, uh, for [00:00:41] those of you who don't know, the Michal Foundation is named after my late wife, Michal, [00:00:46] and our primary goal is to help widows and orphans and those who have been through [00:00:51] tremendous loss to get back on their feet.

Curtis: That's what our goal and our mission is. And so [00:00:56] Tina volunteers and helps us with that board. We have to have creative [00:01:01] discussions on how we can raise money and how we can give it away and distribute it, and, [00:01:06] that's one of the tasks that she's part of. But one of the reasons I have Tina on the board is that [00:01:11] Tina brings a unique perspective.

Curtis: Um, Tina herself has quite the [00:01:16] story and, uh, knows exactly what it feels like to be [00:01:21] part of this group called a widow.

Curtis: Let me tell you a little bit about her [00:01:26] story. May of 2022, her 31-year-old son, [00:01:31] Cody passed away of health complications. But before that, he was heavily [00:01:36] involved in drugs and abused his body terribly, and so [00:01:41] she has some things to talk about in that arena as well. And then just a year later, [00:01:46] in July of 2023, her husband, Tim, and Tim was a great guy, I knew him [00:01:51] personally was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer in February and died [00:01:56] just four months later. And so she's experienced the loss of a [00:02:01] child. She's experienced the loss of a husband. And so you can see [00:02:06] why I would want her perspective, but I asked her if she would share her story on the [00:02:11] podcast, and there's another piece to the story as well. Prior to her [00:02:16] son, Cody, passing away because of drugs and things, she actually [00:02:21] became the parent, the guardian of her three grandchildren. So today she's a [00:02:26] single mom raising three very active [00:02:31] grandchildren as her own, and we're gonna discuss that a little bit. But Tina, thank you for [00:02:36] coming on the program.

Curtis: Thank you for being willing to do this. Thank you for serving, uh, on the board as [00:02:41] well.

Tina: It is my pleasure, Curtis. It's an honor to be a part of [00:02:46] this foundation and, um, I admire Michal so much [00:02:51] and, just the way she was with people and how she made people feel so [00:02:56] special. You know, just in her presence, she just made you feel like you were the only person in the [00:03:01] world to her. And so it is an honor and privilege to be part of this and [00:03:06] to be able to help other people that's going through some of the same [00:03:11] situation I went through

Curtis: Well, we appreciate you and you know that you're loved [00:03:16] and prayed for and cared for. Uh, James 1:27 says [00:03:21] that religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: [00:03:26] to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself [00:03:31] from being polluted from the world. And that's kind of our mantra. It's what we live [00:03:36] by. The scripture says this is our job, and so I appreciate you doing this. Before [00:03:41] we dive into some of the, ho- ho- honestly, the hard stuff, um, [00:03:46] I knew Tim. So many people in our community knew Tim. But take just a [00:03:51] few minutes and tell our audience who your love of your life was, who [00:03:56] Tim was. He was a military guy, served in Iraq, had a smile [00:04:01] forever. Tell us about Tim.

Tina: Okay. So Tim, um, [00:04:06] yeah, like, like you said, I mean, he had the biggest smile. I mean, [00:04:11] it, it was just a huge smile. And, um, [00:04:16] when-- He was somewhat like Michael in a way. I mean, he was so [00:04:21] outgoing and he just loved people and would pour out, you [00:04:26] know, to people and, um, didn't know a stranger. You [00:04:31] know, he may walk into a room and know no one, but by the time he left, he had [00:04:36] several new friends, you know.

Tina: Um, and he would remember, you [00:04:41] know, the facts and everything about them. I don't do that. Like, I meet someone and then I [00:04:46] don't mean to, but then 10 minutes later, I have forgotten almost everything they told me. [00:04:51]

Tina: But like we, um, you know, we in our younger years would [00:04:56] teach V-VBS and we would have really young kids, like maybe when they [00:05:01] were six, seven, eight years old, and then, you know, 20 years [00:05:06] later, we see them in a grocery store.

Tina: We hadn't seen them since, and he would know who they [00:05:11] were.

Tina: Like, he would recognize them and I was like, "How do you, how did you know [00:05:16] that that's who that was?" And he's like, "People's eyes never change."

Curtis: [00:05:21] Hmm.

Tina: So I don't know. But he, I mean, he just was so good [00:05:26] at that. He's just so good with people.

Tina: We met, um, [00:05:31] it was July of 1991. [00:05:36] We were introduced. We knew who each other were because he went to Circleville High School. I [00:05:41] went to Logan Elm, local rivals.

Tina: You know, we were, um, the same [00:05:46] grade in school and everything, and he was captain of the football team, captain of the wrestling team. [00:05:51] Um, I did drill team and, you know, he even knew. [00:05:56] He was like, "I knew exactly who you were in the parade. You were, you stood in the very front [00:06:01] on the right-hand side." And I was like, "Oh my gosh."

Curtis: That's crazy.

Tina: knew who I [00:06:06] was. . I was working at the Savings Bank and he would always come up to my window [00:06:11] 'Cause I had, like, the walk-up window, and he would always come to my window. [00:06:16] And so, uh, one time he came in and he had to [00:06:21] order some deposit slips, and, um, he always had this big grin on his face. But [00:06:26] so later I did something probably I shouldn't have, but I [00:06:31] took the phone number off of his account [00:06:36] And I actually called him and asked him out.

Curtis: That's awesome.[00:06:41]

Tina: Yeah. I went-- I was telling my mom about him, and she's like, "Tina, just ask him [00:06:46] out." I was like, "Oh, are you kidding? I can do that?" So I [00:06:51] asked him out, and we went on our first date three days later. [00:06:56] But on our first date, he let me know that when I called him and asked him out, it was actually his [00:07:01] birthday.

Curtis: Oh my. Okay

Tina: Yeah. So I called him and asked him out on his birthday. [00:07:06] Um, we went bowling, and I beat him.[00:07:11]

Curtis: This

Tina: the last time.

Curtis: This just gets better all the

Curtis: time. This is [00:07:16] good

Tina: probably the last time that I ever beat him, but I beat him. Um,

Curtis: Are you sure [00:07:21] he didn't let you?

Tina: No, he didn't. He told, he's told me, he told me 'cause I kept saying, [00:07:26] you know, years and years later, I'm like, "Are you sure?" He was like, "No." He said, he said, "I think I was just [00:07:31] nervous." And I said, "Okay."

Tina: But we stayed up and talked all night and, um, but [00:07:36] he would... I'm s- I'm jumping around, but he would help anybody. Like, [00:07:41] if he saw someone on the side of the road that needed help, as long as the kids weren't with us, [00:07:46] he would stop and lend a hand. Um, [00:07:51] one time we were-- He dropped me off. I ran, I was running in CVS to [00:07:56] grab a prescription, so I ran in to get it.

Tina: I come back out and he's not there. [00:08:01] Like, his truck and everything is gone. And I'm like, "Okay." [00:08:06] And I just happened to look, and down the alley there w- he was. [00:08:11] And I, so I, I walked, I could walk there, and I walked down there and I was like, "Oh, [00:08:16] what's going on?" And it was an older couple trying to load a [00:08:21] washer in their truck to take to their son.[00:08:26]

Tina: And so, yeah, he loaded it up and followed them. We followed [00:08:31] them to his son's house, and he unloaded it and yeah, that's just the kind [00:08:36] of guy he was.

Tina: You know, if we had any family or friends or anybody that was [00:08:41] moving, you know,

Curtis: Mm-hmm.

Tina: Tim would jump in and help. Just the most [00:08:46] dependable and loyal person

Curtis: Well, you know how I know Tim is we were greeters at [00:08:51] church.

Curtis: Like, it was the perfect job 'cause he got to stand there and just meet and [00:08:56] greet people, and that's how I know about his big smile and his

Curtis: personality. [00:09:01] Uh, we did that for a long time. I saw on my Facebook feed the other day that you would've been [00:09:06] celebrating, I think, your 32nd anniversary

Curtis: this year. Is that correct?

Tina: Yep, [00:09:11] September 10th

Curtis: yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, [00:09:16] I know going to even his funeral and the love that the [00:09:21] people showed him, and they all told the same kind of stories, how helpful he [00:09:26] was, his smile, his encouragement, just the way he [00:09:31] interacted with people. Tell me about the grocery store, um, story

Tina: [00:09:36] Hmm. Okay. So I am a very focused person. [00:09:41] Um, you know, if I have a task to do, I'm like just, I'm just focused. I don't wanna [00:09:46] spend extra time. I don't have the time. Um, well, back then I [00:09:51] didn't think I had the time, but looking back I'm like, I did have time. But anyway, we would go [00:09:56] to the grocery store and he always wanted to go with me.

Tina: Um, so we [00:10:01] would go to the grocery store, and this happened on several occasions, not just one. And [00:10:06] I, you know, if there was just one item I needed that was kind of across the store or something, [00:10:11] then I would say, "Hey, you know, why don't you run and get the paper towels and [00:10:16] I'll finish the grocery shopping, um, and then just come find me."[00:10:21]

Tina: And I would go through the grocery store and [00:10:26] get everything done, focused on my task, get it all done. Still no Tim. [00:10:31] Can't find Tim. And, um, so [00:10:36] I would go back to where I sent him to, like to get the paper [00:10:41] towels, and he would be standing by the paper towels. He doesn't have them in [00:10:46] his hand yet, but he's talking to someone and he has talked to that person [00:10:51] or people the whole time and still did not grab the paper [00:10:56] towels.

Curtis: Yeah

Tina: So I grab 'em, put 'em in the cart, give him the look, you know, [00:11:01] and he wraps it up finally. But yeah.

Curtis: [00:11:06] I, I actually know that feeling. I was married to somebody very similar.

Tina: Yeah.[00:11:11]

Curtis: Oh, man. No, we, we loved Tim

Curtis: let's [00:11:16] switch gears for just a second. Your son Cody. I knew Cody when he would run in and out of the [00:11:21] office as a kid, uh, a little bit as a teenager. So I have this image [00:11:26] of this kind of pure, innocent, great kid, fun, [00:11:31] outgoing. Um, and I love it that I- that's the image that I have of him. Does that make

Tina: [00:11:36] Yeah. Oh, yeah

Curtis: but, but tell me about Cody as a kid. Tell us [00:11:41] a little bit about Cody

Tina: Okay. Cody was, I mean, he was very hyper, [00:11:46] ADHD. I'm, um, and he-- [00:11:51] so sometimes, sometimes he was a, a hard kid to parent. Um, [00:11:56] you know, uh, he sometimes would even stay [00:12:01] up all night and still function the [00:12:06] next day. I don't understand. But anyway, he was very rem- rambunctious and had a hard [00:12:11] time sitting still in school.

Tina: He was a good kid. Um, very, very [00:12:16] intelligent, um, especially with history and things. He knew all the [00:12:21] facts. I mean, he was, he was very intelligent. In, in fact, Tim used to say, [00:12:26] "He's one of the smartest people I know." He w- that's just who Cody was. [00:12:31] Um, I really always, um, admired him for that, and [00:12:36] I would tell him, "You can be anything you wanna be when you grow up.

Tina: You have the [00:12:41] potential. You could be anything. You could do anything." Um, [00:12:46] and he also was very outgoing and friendly and didn't know a [00:12:51] stranger. Um, he had a huge heart for [00:12:56] animals, the elderly, and the disabled.

Curtis: [00:13:01] Interesting

Tina: so here's a story I don't think I've ever shared with you. But [00:13:06] when he was, uh, probably about four years old, [00:13:11] four and five, 'cause we did it for a while, he had [00:13:16] a, like a calling, and he said it was a calling even at [00:13:21] that age, that he needed to go to the nursing homes and visit with [00:13:26] people.

Curtis: Wow

Tina: And so we would go visit, [00:13:31] uh, usually about once a week, I think. It was a long time ago. But we would go [00:13:36] visit, um, and we got to where there was a few that [00:13:41] we spent regular time with, and he would just visit with them, and [00:13:46] he, and then before we would leave, he would pray with them.

Curtis: That's amazing.

Tina: Yeah, [00:13:51] that was, that was Cody.

Tina: Um, when he was really little, [00:13:56] I would say he was probably about three maybe, 'cause he was still sitting in the [00:14:01] cart, and we would go through a store, and it was kind of embarrassing [00:14:06] but also a proud moment because he would just scream, "Who loves [00:14:11] Jesus? Does everybody love Jesus?" And then he would point to people.[00:14:16]

Tina: He, or he'd say, "Raise your hand if you love Jesus."

Tina: And then if they didn't raise their hand, he would [00:14:21] point them out and say, "Why didn't you raise your hand? Do you not know Jesus?" I mean, [00:14:26] that's who he was as a kid. Yeah, just an am- amazing [00:14:31] kid,

Tina: and also wanted to help people all the time and, um- [00:14:36] He often hung [00:14:41] around with people that were less fortunate than he was in [00:14:46] many ways.

Tina: That's who... And looking [00:14:51] back, I b- I believe, I mean, he wanted to help them. But I think [00:14:56] also, even though he was so outgoing and things, that maybe there was a little [00:15:01] bit part of him that, um, was depressed [00:15:06] and didn't have, um [00:15:11] much confidence in himself, and so I really think that he [00:15:16] hung around with people like that so that he was the smartest and [00:15:21] kind of the, the best, you know, in the group.

Curtis: Yeah

Tina: [00:15:26] Now, you know, looking back, I, I think it was both of that, that he, he wanted to help [00:15:31] people, but also it made him feel good to be that [00:15:36] person

Curtis: You told me that when, um, Cody turned 14, he'd had a [00:15:41] ton of back problems, back pain. Um, [00:15:46] got him diagnosed with spinal stenosis, right? At [00:15:51] 14, which is... That's an old people's disease, right?

Tina: Yeah, you're usually like 60 years or [00:15:56] older

Curtis: and was in a tremendous amount of pain. Doctors put him on pain [00:16:01] meds

Curtis: as a 14-year-old, real pain meds. And, um, [00:16:06] you, you told me that really was the beginning, and then as he got older as [00:16:11] a teenager, he got into some other things with some friends and things like that.

Curtis: And so [00:16:16] basically for the next 10, 12 years, you have a son who's stuck in [00:16:21] a cycle of drugs,

Tina: Yes

Curtis: don't, don't recognize. And [00:16:26] so I got two questions for you. One is, you know, take us on that journey a little bit [00:16:31] of what it's like to be the mother going through this.

Curtis: But then second thing [00:16:36] is, how did your relationship with Tim go during this time? Because this is your [00:16:41] kid, and, and just knowing a little bit about other families who have been [00:16:46] through this, it's not just one struggle.

Curtis: The two of you gotta figure this out, too. [00:16:51] And so just, just help us, kind of walk us through that.

Tina: Well, I'll tell you, in the [00:16:56] beginning, w- I'd say for the first year or so that [00:17:01] Cody was starting to struggle, um, I think [00:17:06] he, and, and, you know, and after the pills [00:17:11] were no longer available or when he needed [00:17:16] more than what the pills were giving him, I think he started out with marijuana. [00:17:21] Um, but Tim and I were both very naive.[00:17:26]

Tina: We know we had not experienced anything like this, and that was a [00:17:31] long time ago.

Curtis: Mm-hmm

Tina: about it as much back then. [00:17:36] Um, you know, you, I didn't know a lot [00:17:41] about drugs at all, and I was very naive. Now, there [00:17:46] was a possibility, I know, through genetics, um, [00:17:51] on both sides of, of our family, there's been a little bit of alcohol abuse, [00:17:56] and so I was always on the lookout for that.

Tina: I had no [00:18:01] idea that if you have the genetics of [00:18:06] that, then you probably have, like, an addiction personality, that part of [00:18:11] your brain that becomes addicted easier than other people. [00:18:16] Um, so I was just looking, I was always [00:18:21] looking, you know, for the alcohol. Well, that wasn't an issue for [00:18:26] Cody. You know, he didn't really drink alcohol.

Tina: So, um, [00:18:31] in my mind, you know, he, he was [00:18:36] okay. He just, you know, was starting to get, you know, his teenage years [00:18:41] and starting to get a little, um, you know, talk [00:18:46] back more and things like that, um, and also at times withdraw [00:18:51] more. But again, I just, I had never raised a teenager. I didn't know. [00:18:56] Um, so to me, he was just doing typical teenage boy [00:19:01] stuff until, um, he got his driver's license, [00:19:06] and of course, that gives more freedom.

Curtis: Mm-hmm.

Tina: You know, as a parent, you lose a [00:19:11] lot of control when they get their driver's license. So, [00:19:16] um, looking back, I'm like, I should have done so much more up to that point to [00:19:21] maybe better prepare him, but that's another story.

Curtis: Sure.

Tina: [00:19:26] Um,

Curtis: When did you and him realize, "Oh man, this is bad"?[00:19:31]

Tina: It's, it's really hard to pinpoint the, the moment [00:19:36] or even how old he was or anything because a lot of that is such a blur. [00:19:41]

Tina: It was a long time ago. We went through so much trauma that I think, [00:19:46] um, a little bit of PTSD, um, with that. So [00:19:51] I think my mind, you know, protects itself [00:19:56] and protects my heart. Um, but he [00:20:01] was in high school and when we knew that he was [00:20:06] struggling with something, we didn't know.

Tina: At first we didn't know. Honestly, we thought it was [00:20:11] marijuana and that it, you know, it was, that it was getting to be too much. Um, [00:20:16] so I, we know we tried our best to, um, [00:20:21] tighten the reins a little bit, pull him in more. [00:20:26] Um, but so he also [00:20:31] was diagnosed, um, as bipolar. So [00:20:36] the bipolar and the drugs together was a terrible combination [00:20:41] because, you know, he would explode.

Tina: He punched our [00:20:46] walls and we had holes in it. And, um, the good, I mean, he [00:20:51] never, he never punched people, so that was a good thing. but he would tear up the [00:20:56] house when he didn't get what he wanted. and he wouldn't take his bipolar [00:21:01] meds. He, he would refuse, but that's typical. People with bipolar, they [00:21:06] self-medicate.

Tina: And then that also I think contributed to [00:21:11] the abuse of drugs. And then he got, um, [00:21:16] to where I, we would notice, you know, things missing. You know, he was stealing [00:21:21] from us. So- I [00:21:26] don't know. That's-- But that's when we really knew, I guess, [00:21:31] that it, it was hard. And, um, it [00:21:36] did take a bit of a toll on the marriage, um, just [00:21:41] because most of the time we saw eye to eye on how to deal with [00:21:46] it, but my struggle was the tough love.[00:21:51]

Tina: I was terrible at tough love. I mean, just awful. [00:21:56] Um, I wasn't strong enough for it back then. [00:22:01] Um, so Tim was more the tough love parent, and so that was [00:22:06] probably our battle a little bit was, you know

Curtis: So

Curtis: somebody's [00:22:11] listening to this and they're, they're saying, "I, I'm there [00:22:16] or I've been there." So would you allow Tim [00:22:21] to have the tough love that was needed? I mean, could you agree that he could do that [00:22:26] or was that, was that a tug of war?

Tina: I, I [00:22:31] allowed it,

Tina: but I wasn't happy about it, [00:22:36] and I'm sure that I showed that in other ways, other, uh, other than [00:22:41] I didn't tell him no, I didn't tell him not to. I-- But, you know, [00:22:46]

Curtis: You're a mama. You're a mama, I-- get it.

Tina: That's my baby

Curtis: And [00:22:51] that's your baby boy, the boy

Curtis: that you just defined and told us about.

Curtis: [00:22:56] It's hard for us to wrap our heads around that.

Curtis: Yeah, I

Tina: And yeah, and you know, for the [00:23:01] first few years of his life, I was a single mom and it was just [00:23:06] me and him.

Tina: So we had a, we had quite the bond.

Curtis: [00:23:11] Yeah, I

Tina: We always did. Yeah.

Curtis: There came a [00:23:16] point where you had to... Well, first of all, [00:23:21] he, he got a girl pregnant, had Elena,

Tina: [00:23:26] Mm-hmm went from bad to worse 'cause now you've got two people on drugs [00:23:31] and a baby involved, and I know there was a point in your life where you had to distance yourself from [00:23:36] him, and there was this emergency, "We gotta get this kid out of their hands, and we [00:23:41] gotta raise her."

Curtis: Can you, can you talk to that a little bit?

Tina: Yes. [00:23:46] Um, you know, when it became evident that they were [00:23:51] not able to properly take care of her, you know, there was [00:23:56] neglect in there. Um, they loved her. I mean, oh my gosh, [00:24:01] she was the apple of their eye. I mean, and [00:24:06] I would say especially Kody. Um, he spent a lot of time with her [00:24:11] and, um, you know, would, would teach [00:24:16] her how to write her ABCs and stuff even really young.

Tina: I mean, [00:24:21] he loved her, but could not take care of her. [00:24:26] Um, you know, when you get addicted to something, it [00:24:31] controls you. You don't control your life anymore. So when [00:24:36] it became very evident that they were not able to care for her properly, [00:24:41] um, yeah, we went, um, and saw a lawyer and took [00:24:46] emergency custody of Elena.

Tina: And then, uh, yes, I had to [00:24:51] distance myself for a few years from Kody. Um, [00:24:56] we stayed in contact. Um, I made sure that his, [00:25:01] you know, bare minimal things that he needed were [00:25:06] taken care of.

Curtis: Like food

Tina: Yes. Um, [00:25:11] so where they were living, um, with [00:25:16] a couple other people, they, of course, would not pay their bills [00:25:21] because any money they got went to drugs.

Tina: So there was no running water. [00:25:26] There was, um, no electricity. [00:25:31] But I would have food delivered to the house. Thankfully, [00:25:36] you know, because of COVID and everything, that's a possibility. That's the one good thing that came out of COVID. [00:25:41] Um, but so I would have f- food delivered. Um, [00:25:46] I mean, I didn't have a lot of money, but I would [00:25:51] send the basics, you know, the unnamed brand, the generic, [00:25:56] you know, bread, peanut butter, jelly, um, cases [00:26:01] of water, um, you know, canned goods, things like that.

Tina: [00:26:06] Um, I made sure... You know, and I would send a few of things that I knew [00:26:11] that he and his girlfriend liked, you know, just so they'd have it once in a [00:26:16] while. But most of the time it was just your basic staples. Plus they didn't have [00:26:21] electricity, so nothing that had to stay too cold, you know, [00:26:26] um, be refrigerated and things like that.

Tina: So, you know, it was tough, [00:26:31] but I-- there's no way I was gonna give them money,

Curtis: Right

Tina: and I knew that if [00:26:36] I paid the electric bill or the water bill, it would just be shut off again

Curtis: Yeah, I want you to say [00:26:41] that again. No money.

Tina: No money.

Curtis: [00:26:46] Yeah

Tina: I learned that the hard way. I was an enabler for a few [00:26:51] years and, um, we almost lost our house because of that. [00:26:56] So, um, yeah, no money. No matter [00:27:01] what they cry out for, um, they will make you feel [00:27:06] guilty.

Curtis: Mhm

Tina: I mean, it is so [00:27:11] hard, but no money. [00:27:16] You just can't do it

Curtis: And so now you and your [00:27:21] husband Tim are parenting again.

Tina: Yes[00:27:26]

Curtis: I know Tim, Tim's a great dad, but tell me that dynamic because this is your [00:27:31] son's kid, but you treat her like your own.[00:27:36]

Tina: Uh-huh.

Curtis: And, you know, I, I wanna be [00:27:41] careful. You're not old.

Tina: I am now. [00:27:46]

Curtis: But, But, this is a little girl, and

Curtis: we've lived similar [00:27:51] stories like this,

Curtis: but this is a little bit of a shock to the system.

Tina: Yeah, and she's a very active

Curtis: [00:27:56] Oh, yeah.

Tina: Very sassy, active little girl. Um, [00:28:01] but has a personality that also just draws people in. But, [00:28:06] um, I, I tell you, you know, you look back and you think [00:28:11] God knew what he was doing when he orchestrated, um, our [00:28:16] marriage and, um, how everything came about. You know, [00:28:21] people look back at our story and it looks a little backwards because we both [00:28:26] had kids.

Tina: We're never married, but we each had one kid [00:28:31] named Cody. And then, you know, so we had our kids, then we bought [00:28:36] our house, then we got married. 'Cause we, we weren't Christians at [00:28:41] first, you know, but that came later, thank goodness. Um-

Curtis: Which, hey, [00:28:46] let me just say this real quick. Um, Tim's daughter, his daughter is actually named Cody, [00:28:51] so there's

Curtis: two Codys, uh, in the family, and she has two [00:28:56] sons, and so you are a g- a real grandma to her two kids.

Tina: Yes, I get to be a [00:29:01] grandma to somebody.

Curtis: Yeah. No, that's awesome. I didn't wanna miss that opportunity to, to share [00:29:06] that as Well, Yes it went from bad to worse. [00:29:11] Um, Cody and his girlfriend got pregnant again,

Curtis: only this [00:29:16] time with twins, and, um, tell us about that

Tina: [00:29:21] Well, um, and I'll tell you, I, I used, [00:29:26] I used to pray, like when I was pregnant that, you know, 'cause you hear about [00:29:31] people being pregnant for twins but not realizing it until they deliver. [00:29:36] I, and even though I wasn't a Christian, I prayed. Um, [00:29:41] but I, I prayed often for one, that I would have a [00:29:46] girl, and that didn't happen.

Tina: But also, like I don't, I can't do twins. [00:29:51] Don't give me twins. I can't do twins, and I can't do a boy. [00:29:56] I had a boy. I was thankful that it wasn't twins. [00:30:01] But anyway, so yeah, um, she finds out she's pregnant, [00:30:06] and she's actually very excited about it. And, um, [00:30:11] she l- you know, they let me know that it was twins, and in, [00:30:16] in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, "This is it."

Tina: You know, [00:30:21] either they're gonna get their act together finally, or [00:30:26] I'm looking at raising three kids instead of one. [00:30:31] You know, Tim and I are about to have our [00:30:36] world rocked. Um, but, you [00:30:41] know, through her pregnancy, I mean, we helped as much as we could without giving [00:30:46] money.

Tina: She wouldn't go to the doctor, though.

Tina: I don't [00:30:51] know if she feared that, of course, that she'd be [00:30:56] tested and then, you know, there might be some legal issues or, [00:31:01] um, I don't know. But she would not go to the doctor

Curtis: Which you later [00:31:06] found out she was using

Tina: She finally did go to the doctor [00:31:11] right before her third trimester. She finally went, [00:31:16] um, and they put her on Suboxone. And, [00:31:21] um, but that's not great on a [00:31:26] baby either, or on a person. Um, so [00:31:31] I believe that in the last trimester she did [00:31:36] try, and she maybe didn't take as much drugs [00:31:41] because of the Suboxone.

Tina: But when the, the twins were born, they [00:31:46] miraculously made it full term because she was very [00:31:51] tiny. Uh, she did-- she barely looked pregnant, and she was carrying [00:31:56] twins. Um, so they were very squished in there, um, [00:32:01] which caused a little bit of problems for one of them, um, their legs being [00:32:06] so squished, but that worked out.

Tina: But anyway, so [00:32:11] she carried full term, but when they were born, they were [00:32:16] tested, um, because they were having withdrawal symptoms. [00:32:21] Um, and honestly, I don't remember. I've got all the paperwork [00:32:26] at home. Um, but I know that they [00:32:31] had cocaine in their system, um, [00:32:36] a little bit of fentanyl, and heroin. I [00:32:41] mean, just this huge l-list, um, that was in [00:32:46] their system, and they were withdrawing.

Tina: And so, [00:32:51] um, thankfully, it was up and down for a while, but [00:32:56] thankfully, um, they only had to spend a couple weeks in the NICU. Uh, but there [00:33:01] were some scary moments that they weren't gonna make it. And [00:33:06] then even after they were born, um, Cambry, the [00:33:11] girl, 'cause they're boy/girl twins, she, um, like just [00:33:16] didn't seem to have a thrive to survive kind of thing.

Tina: Um, so [00:33:21] she scared us a little bit. But they went home with mom [00:33:26] and dad after their two weeks in NICU. Um, [00:33:31] CPS did get involved. They did reach out to me and say, [00:33:36] "We're gonna let them go home with mom and dad, um, but they're gonna be on a [00:33:41] 30-day safety plan," which involved a lot of things such as, you know, [00:33:46] pop-in visits from CPS, and drug testing, and all of that.

Tina: [00:33:51] Um- When CPS would show up, they would just, they wouldn't answer the [00:33:56] door. So they missed all their visits with CPS, um, [00:34:01] Child Protective Services. But in the beginning, I'm sorry, I'm jumping around. In the [00:34:06] beginning, when CPS reached out to us before they left the hospital and said [00:34:11] they're gonna be on this 30-day safety plan, but [00:34:16] if it doesn't work out, are you and your husband willing [00:34:21] to take the twins and through kinship care, [00:34:26] you know, we're, we'll, you know, try to do reunification if we [00:34:31] can.

Tina: Um, but if not, even beyond that, are you willing [00:34:36] to, to raise these kids, um, be their guardian? Um, [00:34:41] so, you know,

Curtis: Which you had already, you had already had [00:34:46] those thoughts, but had you and Tim had those conversations?

Tina: [00:34:51] We did, but we never yet said [00:34:56] yes for sure that we'll do it. I mean, I knew that I would. I mean, [00:35:01] it's just my innate mothering, instinct. [00:35:06] But, um, Tim would kind of [00:35:11] go around the subject a little bit, you know?

Tina: Um, yes, but [00:35:16] no, you know, kind of thing. But when it came down to it, he [00:35:21] kinda surprised me. He immediately was, "Yes, [00:35:26] we will so The 30-day safety plan lasted two [00:35:31] weeks. and then When CPS called us, it was, [00:35:36] I don't know, like maybe... It was evening, I know. They called [00:35:41] us and they were like, "Okay, we're taking the children.

Tina: Can you come [00:35:46] up to our office and meet us there?" [00:35:51] The, you know, they, the doctor sees them there and, you know, [00:35:56] che-checks them and everything before they send them with the, um, the kinship or [00:36:01] foster families. So we meet him at the office, and while the babies [00:36:06] are getting checked out, and I was with them, Tim was sitting in the waiting [00:36:11] room because they were also bringing paperwork and stuff out.

Tina: So while I was with the [00:36:16] babies, he was going over paperwork and things that they were gonna [00:36:21] give us to get us started, 'cause we didn't have formula. We di- I mean, we had [00:36:26] nothing. Um, so while he was sitting [00:36:31] there, o-one of the ladies that sits at the reception desk, [00:36:36] she said, "I can tell by your smile, you really want these [00:36:41] babies, don't you?"

Tina: And he said, "I really do." And so, [00:36:46] um, and she told me about it when I, when I went [00:36:51] back out there. She said, "Man, that's a, he's a good man." She, he's, [00:36:56] she said, "You guys are gonna do great."

Curtis: And Tim, I think, was 50 at the time. I think that's right. [00:37:01] Close.

Curtis: Yeah

Curtis: Yeah. So imagine.

Curtis: Yeah.

Curtis: [00:37:06] I'm trying to... Whew.

Tina: Yep. We were both 50[00:37:11]

Tina: Yeah. So they were born March [00:37:16] 1st. They had two weeks in NICU, two weeks with mom and [00:37:21] dad. We got them on April 1st.

Curtis: Wow.

Tina: It wasn't an April Fool's joke. Sure. [00:37:26] No, you really got them. They weren't gonna give them--

Curtis: You weren't gonna give them back.

Curtis: [00:37:31] So what was, what was the year of that?

Tina: Um, they were born in [00:37:36] 2020, so it was also the pandemic

Curtis: Oh, man. You're right in the middle of all of it.[00:37:41]

Tina: Yeah, they were COVID babies

Curtis: [00:37:46] Toa So full custody, what's the relationship with [00:37:51] Cody and his girlfriend over the next couple years?

Tina: Um, [00:37:56] I mean, it was good, um, as it could be.

Curtis: Mm-hmm.

Tina: [00:38:01] Um, like, I, you know, Cody and I, like I said, we always had a really [00:38:06] tight bond. Um, and he, he knew that, [00:38:11] you know, they didn't have support hardly anywhere else, not much. [00:38:16] Um, so even though I think [00:38:21] especially his girlfriend, you know, obviously as a mom, [00:38:26] she had a hard time, um, that [00:38:31] someone else had her kids and, and, you know, my heart would break for her.[00:38:36]

Tina: And, um, we, you know, we tried [00:38:41] CPS set up visitation where-- but they ha- it had to be at their office [00:38:46] and things. Um, but they're pretty strict. I [00:38:51] mean, they give you... I think it was like if you're more than 15 minutes late, the [00:38:56] visit doesn't happen. They were always too late or didn't show up, [00:39:01] had the wrong date down or, you know, something.

Tina: So [00:39:06] if they didn't take long and they got their visits taken away. [00:39:11] Um, but my heart broke for both of them. [00:39:16] But as a mom, I mean, my heart broke for her. And, [00:39:21] um, a lot of people, you know, would tell me that, [00:39:26] you know, I should feel differently towards her, but my [00:39:31] heart broke for her. And I would tell, I would tell her all the time, I'm like, "You know, if, if [00:39:36] you just start making the right decisions and get your life together, [00:39:41] I have no problem with you visiting these kids.

Tina: They need their mom, [00:39:46] and they need their dad, but you're just not able to right [00:39:51] now."

Tina: And, um, you know, [00:39:56] we take, we took it as a blessing that we could be, um, [00:40:01] in that position

Tina: to take them. But, [00:40:06] um, you know, I prayed for them and, and I [00:40:11] would tell them, you know, "I, I will not ever give you money, [00:40:16] but if you decide to you know, make the right decisions and [00:40:21] everything and, your insurance won't cover it," because they were on [00:40:26] Medicaid, um, you know, "somehow we will pay for it if, [00:40:31] you know, if you need to go into a center and get yourself together, detox, [00:40:36] whatever it takes, um, I'll drive you there.

Tina: We'll pay for it, [00:40:41] um, whatever. You know, we're here for that. We're here for that kind [00:40:46] of help."

Curtis: Yeah. Yeah. No, I know some people are [00:40:51] stuck in this quandary in their own mind as they're listening to this. You know, are you angry at her? Are you loving? And [00:40:56] you're saying, "My heart broke for her."

Curtis: I think you know this, maybe you don't, that, um, when I was in [00:41:01] college, my mom took three boys from a home in a bad situation, [00:41:06] and, uh, they were all three drug, alcohol, fetal syndrome kids, and all have [00:41:11] had their own issues. Um, but my single mom, I don't know how old she [00:41:16] was when she did it, but, uh, I was in college when she did it, and so I have, uh, three [00:41:21] adopted brothers. Some people don't know that. Where my mom stepped out and said, "Nope, [00:41:26] these boys need help." And so

Curtis: it's, it's a mother's heart, and some of [00:41:31] us guys, we won't understand that.

Curtis: We can. I mean, I'm taking care of, you know, raising [00:41:36] Michal's children. I understand from a dad's heart that there's [00:41:41] something about, there's something about a mother's heart and a mother's love that, [00:41:46] man, we can't match. And then a couple years go by, um, [00:41:51] you get a awful call from Cody's girlfriend. [00:41:56] But let me set the stage.

Curtis: You're, you're in trouble 'cause you have an [00:42:01] infection. You're going on your way to the hospital because you have a problem that you need fixed,[00:42:06]

Curtis: and you get this phone call. Tell us, tell us about that story.

Tina: Okay. [00:42:11] So, um, I had had surgery on my foot [00:42:16] and my leg, but on my foot there was a [00:42:21] space that didn't get, um, stitched correctly, [00:42:26] and it had gotten infected, like really bad, you know, 'cause I kept putting [00:42:31] off going to the doctor. And it was actually Mother's Day [00:42:36] in 2022, and Tim, [00:42:41] he was like, "Okay, that foot looks really bad," and I couldn't hardly [00:42:46] walk on it.

Tina: And he said, "I'm taking you to the emergency room." Um, [00:42:51] so I was heading to the [00:42:56] ER at the hospital that I knew my [00:43:01] podiatrist was affiliated with. And on my way, [00:43:06] I get a phone call from, um, Cody's [00:43:11] girlfriend saying, "He is really sick, [00:43:16] and we don't know what to do.

Tina: I... You know, he needs to get to a [00:43:21] hospital. I can't take him. He can't drive." Um, [00:43:26] so she was wanting me, she was wanting us to come up [00:43:31] and take him to the hospital. And I said, "Well, actually, I'm on my way to the [00:43:36] hospital." I said, "You're gonna have to call the squad." So they called the squad and, you know, [00:43:41] from where they live, the closest hospital was Mount Carmel East.

Tina: [00:43:46] So they were heading to Mount Carmel East, and I was on [00:43:51] Stringtown Road in Grove City at a hospital. Um, [00:43:56] so they took him in. They admitted him. [00:44:01] Um, he had double pneumonia, but it had went [00:44:06] septic

Curtis: And then he [00:44:11] eventually calls you

Tina: Yeah, so this was on Mother's Day. We both get

Tina: admitted to, [00:44:16]

Tina: to our hospital. I didn't get-- I, I talked to him a little bit on that [00:44:21] day, and it wa- he wasn't too bad. Like, he was really sick, [00:44:26] um, and he was in ICU, but it seemed like he was just, you know, [00:44:31] gonna get the meds and he was gonna be okay. And then, you know, they were [00:44:36] gonna move him to a regular room soon.

Tina: But [00:44:41] then the next day, it was Monday, he calls me [00:44:46] and it's a very different phone call. he calls me and he is [00:44:51] screaming in pain, and he's screaming for the nurse to come in, [00:44:56] and he's screaming for me to help [00:45:01] him I'm very helpless at this moment [00:45:06] He's screaming for me to help him[00:45:11]

Tina: And screaming for the nurse. And when the nurse finally comes in, [00:45:16] I asked to talk to him, and he said he will [00:45:21] not be going to a regular room This is [00:45:26] bad. If you can get here, you need to get here. [00:45:31] We don't know how much time is left[00:45:36] [00:45:41]

Tina: So I talked to my doctor [00:45:46] and I said, "I have to go. [00:45:51] I have to." Um, and she [00:45:56] said, "I will, I will write you out of this, of the hospital, but you have [00:46:01] to promise me you will come right back, because if not, you're gonna be in the [00:46:06] same situation. You're gonna go septic." she said, "You have to come back.

Tina: If not [00:46:11] here, somewhere, because this has to be dealt with. You need surgery." [00:46:16] And, um, I said, "Okay," because they were giving me [00:46:21] antibiotics and such before they would do the surgery. So I was-- My surgery was scheduled for [00:46:26] Tuesday. This was Monday. [00:46:31] And

Curtis: And Tim's home taking care of the girls, the kids.

Tina: The kids, yes. [00:46:36] But I did call him, um, and my sister went over, took [00:46:41] Co- to take care of the kids so he could drive me to the hospital to see Cody.[00:46:46]

Tina: Um, so he drives me to the hospital. Um, and [00:46:51] yes, I had never seen a [00:46:56] scene like that before. Like, I was with my dad when he passed in the hospital [00:47:01] and, um, to s- and see what he was all hooked up to. You know, he [00:47:06] had cancer. But anyway, um, the amount of things [00:47:11] that were hooked up to these multiple IV poles, I mean, they were just full [00:47:16] of, you know, all these things, [00:47:21] medicine and monitors, and it was just, [00:47:26] like, mind-blowing.

Tina: I just... I'd never seen anything like that before. [00:47:31] Um, but because they had him so sedated, I mean, he couldn't [00:47:36] talk or anything. Um, but I [00:47:41] felt he could hear me. Um, may I [00:47:46] jump back a little bit?

Curtis: Mm-hmm.

Curtis: I was gonna go there anyways

Tina: um, [00:47:51] so jumping back [00:47:56] The Friday before Mother's Day. Um, well, Cody had called [00:48:01] me a couple days before that and he said, "Mom, you know, I'm doing really good.

Tina: Um, [00:48:06] I've been being tested and my drug tests are all clear, and [00:48:11] I'm seeing this counselor three times a week," and I just... [00:48:16] Yeah. He said, "Will you please come with me to my appointment on Friday?" [00:48:21] He said, "I wanna show you how good I'm doing." And I, um, [00:48:26] you know, and we hadn't been in, in much contact at this point except for [00:48:31] me sending him food.

Tina: so I was like, "Sure." [00:48:36] Like, I don't even know how long it had been since I had seen him before that. It was a long time. [00:48:41] I said, "Yeah, I'll take the day off," you know. "I'll go to your appointment, um, [00:48:46] happily," you know. So I took the day off on Friday, and we [00:48:51] spent the day together, the whole day, and, um, I went to [00:48:56] his appointment and yeah, he was doing great.

Tina: He was [00:49:01] drug-free. Um, and but he [00:49:06] was starting to not feel well,

Tina: and his back was hurting, but again, he has [00:49:11] spinal stenosis, so I wasn't thinking that it [00:49:16] could've been his lungs from having the pneumonia. I mean, he had a [00:49:21] cough and stuff, but he used to be a heavy smoker, so he had a cough, you know. [00:49:26] Um, and I hadn't seen him for a long time.

Tina: I wasn't sure what was normal, what was [00:49:31] not, but I told him, I said, "You need to get to a doctor because you don't [00:49:36] sound very good and, um, the places where you're saying your back [00:49:41] hurt is, hurts is, seems a little off, not quite the same place that it [00:49:46] normally would hurt." I said, "Something's going on. You need to get to a doctor."

Tina: [00:49:51] Um, he said, "Well, I can't find my ID," and I said, "I don't care. You need to [00:49:56] get to a doctor." But I had to get home to get Elena off the school [00:50:01] bus, and my sister was babysitting the twins, and she had to get [00:50:06] home to her handicapped son, um, [00:50:11] 'cause he was... He went to a daytime, like, workshop kinda thing, and so [00:50:16] he was coming home and anyway, I needed to get home so everybody could be [00:50:21] where they needed to be.

Tina: Um-

Curtis: Welcome to mom's life[00:50:26]

Tina: Yeah, exactly. So I've-- you know, I couldn't take [00:50:31] him to the ER or I would have, you know, right then. Um, [00:50:36] so I tell him he needs to go to a doctor. Well, he didn't. He [00:50:41] didn't go to a doctor. That was Friday. But we had spent the day together, and we had [00:50:46] talked about Jesus, and h- um, he-- actually, he [00:50:51] brought it up first, um, which [00:50:56] does a mama's heart good.

Tina: You know, he's like, "I've been praying, you know, and [00:51:01] I, I'm getting back, you know, my relationship with Jesus is, [00:51:06] you know, getting stronger again, and, um, I want you to know [00:51:11] I'm working on that." And, um, so that was Friday, and [00:51:16] we prayed together before I left. Um, and then Saturday, [00:51:21] I talked to him, and he didn't sound very good, and I s- was trying to encourage him to [00:51:26] go to the, to the doctor.

Tina: And, um, he, he w- didn't [00:51:31] go. He w- um, there was some pushback there from some other people too, [00:51:36] um, that didn't want him to go to the doctor. But, [00:51:41] um, anyway, and then Sunday, we're both on our way to the [00:51:46] hospital. And then Monday, you know, we talk, and [00:51:51] he's in ICU but doing better. And then, um, I get the phone [00:51:56] call, um [00:52:01] Tuesday.

Tina: And, um, honestly, I can't remember [00:52:06] if it was Monday night maybe. I think it was Monday night I get [00:52:11] that call and I leave the hospital to go see him [00:52:16] and walk in and

Curtis: Aha

Tina: see what I [00:52:21] see. And, um, I just...

Curtis: and Tim's with you, [00:52:26] correct?

Tina: Yes, yes, at this point Tim is with me, um, and my sister is with the [00:52:31] kids again. Um, and, [00:52:36] you know, I, I almost like, I almost just like [00:52:41] laid on, on him.

Tina: Like I- you know, [00:52:46] hug him, hugging my boy, my baby boy,

Curtis: Yeah

Tina: um, that's [00:52:51] unresponsive and things, um At one point, he [00:52:56] did mumble that he loved me, so I knew he could hear me. [00:53:01] And, um, so I, I prayed a lot. [00:53:06] Um, but [00:53:11] I was-- It was really strange. Like, my heart was completely shattered, [00:53:16] but there was also a peace because [00:53:21] of Friday, that day we got to spend together.

Tina: And, [00:53:26] um, I just am so thankful [00:53:31] that we had that opportunity and, like, that God orchestrated [00:53:36] that

Curtis: Yes. Yes Yeah. [00:53:41] Thank God for Friday, right?

Tina: Mm-hmm.

Curtis: Yeah. [00:53:46] I'm so sorry

Tina: Yeah. And I don't know, you know, [00:53:51] how else to explain how it was really [00:53:56] weird this, that the sorrow and the peace [00:54:01] could coexist

Curtis: Yes. You [00:54:06] said a statement that I've said many times [00:54:11] Um, but there's something about knowing where they're at. [00:54:16] There's something about God confirming that in your heart [00:54:21] that you can go through this terrible terrible tragedy [00:54:26] and God says, "But you can trust me."

Tina: Mm-hmm. [00:54:31] And the timing, the fact that, [00:54:36] you know, he was getting back to Cody[00:54:41]

Curtis: Yeah. So you, [00:54:46] you hold your son when he passes away,

Tina: Yeah

Curtis: [00:54:51] uh, something no mother on the planet wants to have to do.

Tina: Right

Curtis: [00:54:56] Um, but then Tim says, "Babe, you gotta go back to the hospital."[00:55:01]

Tina: Yeah.

Curtis: Like,

Curtis: what in the world?

Tina: [00:55:06] Yeah. Um, you have to go back to the [00:55:11] hospital and I got, I gotta go take care of the kids. [00:55:16] So yeah, he dropped me off at the hospital. I was by [00:55:21] myself

Tina: And, um, [00:55:26] when I got checked in and up in my room, [00:55:31] the sounds were heart-wrenching. The [00:55:36] beeps and I don't, I don't know. Those sounds though were [00:55:41] so hard

Tina: Um, [00:55:46] and I'm also having to [00:55:51] Talk to the funeral home, you know? [00:55:56] Um Doing some preliminary [00:56:01] arrangements because I can't be there yet. I'm getting ready to have surgery the next [00:56:06] day. I have a schedule for surgery, um, [00:56:11] Wednesday So, [00:56:16] um, thankfully after the surgery, [00:56:21] I didn't stay very long. I think I was only in the hospital for a few hours [00:56:26] after the surgery, and then because of my situation, they let [00:56:31] me go home with a lot of instructions, but [00:56:36] they let me go home

Curtis: And then

Curtis: you had to finish planning a funeral

Tina: yeah.[00:56:41]

Tina: But, um There's, [00:56:46] there's another blessing in there that I don't know if I shared with you or not. [00:56:51] We were at the funeral home and we're planning [00:56:56] the funeral and we get down to where we're just [00:57:01] about finished and, um[00:57:06]

Tina: The funeral director, Mr. Wellman, he [00:57:11] said, um, "Tammy from your office called in." [00:57:16] I said, "Oh, okay." She was our HR director. [00:57:21] She said, he said, "She called in and, um [00:57:26] Your employer is paying for the funeral

Curtis: Praise God.

Tina: [00:57:31] Yeah.

Curtis: Yeah

Tina: Um, because I did take life insurance out [00:57:36] on Cody when he was very young,

Curtis: Mm-hmm.

Tina: But because of, [00:57:41] you know, almost losing the house and things, I had to cash it in.[00:57:46]

Tina: So we didn't have insurance. I mean, yeah, we didn't have

Tina: insurance. Um, [00:57:51] so it would've been tough. That, I mean, there was family that would've pitched in. It would've been taken care [00:57:56] of, but I mean, so my mom was in, in [00:58:01] the room, Tim was in the room, um, Cody's [00:58:06] dad was in the room, and his grandma on his dad's side [00:58:11] was there.

Tina: Um, and when he said that, when he [00:58:16] said, "Your employer, VNS, they're gonna cover the entire funeral [00:58:21] cost," I mean, we all cried.

Curtis: Yeah, sure

Tina: I [00:58:26] mean, it was just, that was just, you know, another blessing[00:58:31]

Curtis: So [00:58:36] You and Tim are, um, still raising children. You're mourning the loss of your [00:58:41] son, and what we didn't cover was that same [00:58:46] year Tim was having his own, um, physical problems. Thought it was a [00:58:51] gallbladder, correct?

Curtis: Um, and so he's, he's kind of been in pain off and on. He's [00:58:56] thinks he has gallbladder problems.

Curtis: He's on medication, things like that. Um, but [00:59:01] overall he's, he's okay.

Curtis: Um, but you guys have to [00:59:06] mourn. I, I asked you this question the other day, and I don't know [00:59:11] know that we got very [00:59:16] deep into it, but [00:59:21] You're busy. These three kids require a lot of effort

Tina: [00:59:26] Yes, and I keep them busy

Curtis: Yes, you do. I see that too, but I'm, I'm, I'm curious, [00:59:31] do you think you ever get to fully mourn [00:59:36] with such a busy life? I mean, these kids depend upon [00:59:41] you. You've gotta go from a funeral to here's life going 100 miles [00:59:46] an hour, and there's no way to slow it down. Um, tell me about [00:59:51] those few months after where you, you and Tim are... You have to mourn,

Curtis: but you [00:59:56] gotta keep going. There's a home, there's a family, there's, there's still responsibility. Talk [01:00:01] about that for a second.

Tina: Yeah. I mean, it was tough. Um, [01:00:06] and I sometimes have a hard time [01:00:11] showing emotions anyway. Um, and I'm very, like, task-oriented, you [01:00:16] know? Um, but I'm still a mom

Curtis: Aha[01:00:21]

Tina: that lost her son. and even though there is that [01:00:26] joy and peace of knowing where he is, he's not [01:00:31] here. He's never gonna be able to be here with his kids.

Tina: He's going to miss [01:00:36] out on so much.

Tina: They're not gonna have him

Curtis: you have to [01:00:41] experience the fact that these are his kids every single day[01:00:46]

Tina: Which is good and bad too. I mean, at least I get [01:00:51] pieces of him,

Curtis: Yes. Yes.

Tina: every day.

Curtis: Mm-hmm

Tina: [01:00:56] Um, but no, I don't know that we [01:01:01] ever got to fully mourn You [01:01:06] know, I, I can remember when my dad passed [01:01:11] away. It was ex- almost exactly three weeks after he passed, I had a [01:01:16] major breakdown,

Curtis: Угу

Tina: and it hit me out of nowhere.

Tina: I was driving. I [01:01:21] had to pull over. Um, I, I mean, [01:01:26] it was bad. And, um, so I [01:01:31] never, I never had that with the loss of [01:01:36] Cody

Curtis: Sure

Tina: I just never... You know, [01:01:41] you have to, I had to be strong for the kids, um, let [01:01:46] them mourn.

Curtis: Uhum.

Tina: Um, especially Elena. She was old enough that she [01:01:51] did have a relationship with her dad.

Curtis: Uhum

Tina: Um [01:01:56] So, you know, there were times at night that, [01:02:01] you know, I would cry a little bit, but not I don't [01:02:06] feel like I fully grieved

Curtis: Sure. That's kind of what I was wondering. [01:02:11] I don't mean to-- I'm not meaning to push I just, um, [01:02:16] I know others are asking that question too. Um, [01:02:21] so Tim, during this time, is having blood work done. He doesn't quite know what's wrong [01:02:26] with him. He's been sick on and off.

Curtis: He has blood work, he has blood work, he has blood [01:02:31] work all the way to February of 2023.[01:02:36]

Tina: Yeah, it started, um, started in [01:02:41] around September that it was starting to really take a [01:02:46] toll. Like, he was losing weight and, um, not able to eat [01:02:51] much, getting a little bit weak. Um, [01:02:56] so I made him go to the ER 'cause he wouldn't go to the doctor. [01:03:01] Um, so I took him to the ER and, um, they did testing and [01:03:06] stuff on him, and he did have problems with his gallbladder.

Tina: They scheduled for it to be [01:03:11] removed in October. Um, so he had his gallbladder [01:03:16] removed in October

Curtis: okay

Tina: And then he continued [01:03:21] to lose weight, not feel well, getting a little [01:03:26] weak off and on. Um, I mean, he was still going to work, [01:03:31] but it, it was taking a... You know, usually Tim was moving and [01:03:36] going all the time. I mean, he never sat down.

Tina: [01:03:41] He was-- he'd move, move, move, and then once he sat down [01:03:46] and laid down, you know, he was out for the night. You know, I mean, [01:03:51] he would go to bed really early, but, um, we were opposite in that too. But [01:03:56] anyway, um, he, uh, [01:04:01] he was just a hard worker, you know. He always had to be [01:04:06] doing something. Um, you know, he helped me a lot [01:04:11] around the house.

Tina: You know, he was one, he would, he would clean, um, [01:04:16] and just huge help around the... I mean, a true [01:04:21] life, true life partner. I mean, you know, um, [01:04:26] he knew there were times that I was busier than he was with work and stuff, so he would pick up the [01:04:31] slack. Um, you know, he picked up the slack a lot when [01:04:36] I decided in my 30s that I was going back to college, you know, to get my [01:04:41] degree.

Tina: Um, yeah, he did a lot. But anyway, [01:04:46] um, that's what, when I knew, you know, that something was [01:04:51] definitely off because he would come home and just be out of it, like [01:04:56] just sit and watch TV. He was tired.

Tina: And, uh, [01:05:01] so he had the gallbladder removed in October, [01:05:06] and I think it was right before Pumpkin Show because he was bummed that he wasn't gonna be able [01:05:11] to eat Pumpkin Show food.

Tina: I think it's right before Pumpkin Show. So, [01:05:16] um, he had the gallbladder removed. You know, we're thinking that's gonna [01:05:21] solve everything, but it didn't. You [01:05:26] know, he's still sick to his stomach and, um, losing [01:05:31] weight. So November follow-up appointment, early November, [01:05:36] and we tell them what's going on, and they're like, "Well, you know, some people, it takes a [01:05:41] while to recover from this surgery.

Tina: It, you know, some people bounce back really [01:05:46] quick. Some people have a lot longer time." And [01:05:51] so we thought, "Okay, you know, we'll give it a little bit longer." You're busy. It's the [01:05:56] holidays, so time goes quick, and, and Tim [01:06:01] doesn't complain. So, you know, I have to notice. [01:06:06] Um, but like I said, it's holidays and things are hectic [01:06:11] and, you know, we have kids.

Tina: Um- [01:06:16] So it was in December. I can't remember if [01:06:21] it was right before or right after Christmas. I think it was right after Christmas, late December, because I think that's [01:06:26] when things were starting to settle down a little bit, and I'm just like, you know, [01:06:31] he's getting thin. And Tim was a big guy. Not, not very [01:06:36] tall, but big shoulders, you know, just big guy.

Tina: Um, [01:06:41] but he was getting s- small. He had lost quite a bit of weight. And [01:06:46] I was like, okay, I know that they said this gallbladder thing [01:06:51] may take a while, but I had, I had had my gallbladder out, bounced right back, [01:06:56] like, in two days, you know? Um, so [01:07:01] I take him to the doctor, and they run all kinds of tests again, like they [01:07:06] did in October when they found the gallbladder.

Tina: But they run all the same [01:07:11] tests, um, you know, blood work, scans, all kinds of [01:07:16] things because of the weight loss. Um, and they don't find [01:07:21] anything. They're like, "You know, let's give a little more time for this [01:07:26] gallbladder issue." Um, so they, you know, they [01:07:31] couldn't find anything. That was end of December. [01:07:36] We go through January, and honestly, I feel [01:07:41] like we went back in January, but I can't remember [01:07:46] specifically.

Tina: I would have to go back through our records. But, um, [01:07:51] anyway, it wasn't till finally [01:07:56] the end of February when we're like, "We [01:08:01] can't take this anymore." And I notice that he's jaundiced now. [01:08:06] Um, his skin is turning, like, an orangish [01:08:11] yellow. The whites of his eyes are turning yellow. I'm like, "You gotta, we [01:08:16] gotta go to the ER again.

Tina: There's something else going on here." [01:08:21] And so that's, um... I take him up to, [01:08:26] I take him to Berger, and they run tests. The same tests that have been run [01:08:31] all these months before. The same tests have been run, I think this [01:08:36] was the third or fourth time. They run the exact same tests, and [01:08:41] the doctor comes in and she says, um, "We're transferring you to [01:08:46] Riverside."

Tina: And we're like, "Okay, what's going [01:08:51] on?" And she was very [01:08:56] somber. She, um, seemed a little [01:09:01] nervous. And she said "I don't wanna say too much [01:09:06] yet," she said, "but I hope this is not cancer." She didn't say [01:09:11] what kind of cancer or anything, um, but she said, "But we're, we're moving you to [01:09:16] Riverside." And so we go to Riverside [01:09:21] and, um, they look at the tests and stuff, run a few more tests, and [01:09:26] came back that yes, it was cancer

Curtis: [01:09:31] Mm, pancreatic cancer

Tina: Yes [01:09:36] That we find out, um, that it, [01:09:41] it was caused by his exposure, [01:09:46] uh, working around the burn pits in Iraq [01:09:51] Um, because at first we're like pancreatic [01:09:56] cancer. You know, a lot of times that's caused from someone that like has a drinking [01:10:01] problem. Um, Tim didn't drink. Even as [01:10:06] a young man before we were Christians and stuff, um, [01:10:11] he didn't drink.

Tina: Um, he wasn't a drinker. I [01:10:16] recall a couple times, like on our anniversary, he would have one drink. He couldn't drink beer, it made him [01:10:21] sick, but he would have like one like mixed drink, like a cocktail kind of thing. [01:10:26] In fact, he would be like, "Can I set this in front of you 'cause it looks kind of funny? I've got this girly [01:10:31] drink."

Curtis: Oh my word.

Tina: Yeah. Um,

Tina: [01:10:36] I know.

Curtis: That's ridiculous.

Tina: Captain of the football team and wrestling team and mil- [01:10:41] military guy we're talking about.

Curtis: Yeah

Tina: But anyway, you know, he wasn't a drinker.

Curtis: well, I [01:10:46] remember this period 'cause this is shortly after, you know, Michal had passed away, and,

Curtis: um, to [01:10:51] see him physically be depleted so quickly, I [01:10:56] think, was it just four months from the

Tina: Eh,

Tina: it was five. It was actually five, [01:11:01] yeah

Curtis: Um Tell us whatever you [01:11:06] wanna tell us about those five months

Tina: Um, it was hard. [01:11:11] So hard watching him go through that. [01:11:16] Um, so most cancers with [01:11:21] chemo, there are many options. I mean, um, [01:11:26] many different medications they can use, different cocktails of [01:11:31] medications they can use, um, for treatment. With pancreatic [01:11:36] cancer, there are two. You have two. Um, so if they don't [01:11:41] work, you know, there's nothing else to do.[01:11:46]

Tina: Um, so we went through our first round of chemo [01:11:51] and, um, it was rough but [01:11:56] not too bad as far as the chemo itself. Didn't cause too many problems for [01:12:01] Tim,

Tina: but it also didn't work. Um, and he was [01:12:06] getting a lot of infections. We were in and out of the hospital so [01:12:11] much. Um, the hardest [01:12:16] part for me during that time was I'm trying to [01:12:21] figure out where I should be.[01:12:26]

Tina: I've got to-- Tim was in the hospital s- I mean, so much [01:12:31] more than he was out during that time. You know, I need to [01:12:36] be with the kids.

Curtis: Mm-hmm.

Tina: I can't lose my job. [01:12:41] I need to be with my husband [01:12:46] You know, there's only so many places I can be [01:12:51] in a day. Um, my employer was fantastic. [01:12:56] You know, they said, "Your job is here." [01:13:01] Um, we're not-- I mean, they kept paying me regularly [01:13:06] my salary, even though I was hardly ever there.[01:13:11]

Tina: They had never let someone work from home before, [01:13:16] um, but they were letting me, you know, if I wanted to. I didn't have to.

Curtis: [01:13:21] Mm-hmm

Tina: there were, for me and my [01:13:26] personality and, um, loy- my loyalty, [01:13:31] there were certain things that I knew were very important [01:13:36] for my boss. Um, I reported directly to the president. [01:13:41] Um, there were things that he needed to ta- for his [01:13:46] reports for our parent company in the UK.

Tina: So,

Tina: those [01:13:51] things I made sure got done, um, no ma- you know, whether I was in the hospital or at [01:13:56] home. But I still felt a lot of [01:14:01] tug to be there, even though they didn't put that pressure on

Curtis: Sure, sure

Tina: But [01:14:06] the, the hardest was between the kids and Tim. [01:14:11] They've lost their dad. They start calling Tim [01:14:16] "Dad."

Tina: [01:14:21] And they know that there's something going on even before [01:14:26] I fully explain to them, you know? Um, [01:14:31] so they have a lot of anxiety and, [01:14:36] you know, stress and curiosity, all the things, [01:14:41] you know. Um, and thank the Lord for my [01:14:46] sister, you know, that she was just [01:14:51] there. She was there anytime I needed her, even though [01:14:56] she had, you know, this adult handicapped son to take care of.[01:15:01]

Tina: Um, she would load up the kids and [01:15:06] take them to her house if she had to, or, and then come back and keep them at my house [01:15:11] 'cause that's where all their stuff was, you know. But, um, but anyway, [01:15:16] so during that time, he was in the hospital a lot, in and out of [01:15:21] ICU, in and out of procedures and surgeries, and he's [01:15:26] so thin that because of all the procedures and surgeries that they needed to do, [01:15:31] they would always say, "No food, [01:15:36] no water, nothing."

Tina: Um, so even when [01:15:41] he was hungry, I had to sit there and watch him be [01:15:46] hungry and frail and not eat. [01:15:51] There was a couple times that he went 72 hours [01:15:56] with no food and only a few ice chips [01:16:01] And he's already so frail.

Curtis: Yeah

Tina: That was [01:16:06] tough

Curtis: Tim [01:16:11] is such the outgoing [01:16:16] connector, loving, happy. Um, [01:16:21] tell me about Tim in those final, final months. I mean [01:16:26] What you can

Tina: Yeah, um[01:16:31]

Tina: I mean, he had, he had his [01:16:36] amazing times where, um, you know, he [01:16:41] would

Tina: not be [01:16:46] upset or angry, you know, that he, you know, of course, [01:16:51] you know, joked around with the nurses and the doctors and, um, was a [01:16:56] joy. But there were times that were dim,

Curtis: [01:17:01] Mm-hmm.

Tina: um Yeah, there were times [01:17:06] that he, he got a little upset, um, [01:17:11] and, you know, couldn't understand why. [01:17:16] But when he would be upset, it [01:17:21] wasn't really about the fact that this was his time.[01:17:26]

Tina: It was about leaving me and the kids and [01:17:31] worry- worried

Curtis: Mm-hmm.

Tina: Were we gonna make it financially?

Curtis: Yeah[01:17:36]

Tina: And knowing that I struggle with tough love, am I [01:17:41] gonna be able to be tough enough?

Curtis: C0rn

Tina: You know, he would keep telling me, "You, you have-- [01:17:46] You're gonna have to be tough. You, you have to be that parent now." [01:17:51] And so when he would have his darker [01:17:56] moments, it was more because of that, not because he was angry [01:18:01] that it was his time to go or, um, it was his [01:18:06] concern for us, me and the kids

Curtis: Well, when Michal was, um, at that point [01:18:11] where the inevitable was happening and that's all she could think about [01:18:16] was, "What's gonna happen to my kids? What's gonna happen to my kids? What's gonna happen to my kids?" [01:18:21] And, um, I remember having to say this to her over and over, like, [01:18:26] "God's got this. God's got this.

Curtis: God's

Curtis: got this. Let me focus on [01:18:31] right now." But wh-- And then it would always be like, "But what about, but what about... And I'd say, [01:18:36] "I just want to be with you right now. Let me have this. God's [01:18:41] got this." And I'd have to promise her, "I promise, God has this [01:18:46] figured out." And so I know what that [01:18:51] conversation feels like and where it's coming from,

Curtis: and he's saying, I...[01:18:56]

Curtis: You know, he's the guy. He has to leave everything the way it's supposed to be, and [01:19:01] everybody's gotta be cared for. And I, I get it. I get it

Tina: Yeah. [01:19:06] Yeah. Um, and I, I kinda would do the same thing. I'm [01:19:11] like, you know, "Do you really think that God would just leave [01:19:16] us and not take care of us?" You know, "Do you [01:19:21] really... Is, is that our God?" No, it's not. You know, [01:19:26] He will take care of us. It may look different than what we're used to, [01:19:31] but He's got this. And, um, of course I had to tell myself [01:19:36] that too, a lot.

Tina: I'm telling Him, and I'm telling myself, yeah, [01:19:41] yeah, yeah. remind myself that, you know, it's not in my [01:19:46] strength, and I, and I promised Him, I was like, "I'm gonna be tough [01:19:51] because I know if not, these kids are gonna run over me." [01:19:56] You know? Um, I've gotta be tough because [01:20:01] I even look weak, you know?

Tina: I look soft and weak. So, you [01:20:06] know, I've gotta be tough. Um, and God [01:20:11] has brought me to a different place in parenting too because [01:20:16] of what I've been through. I have hardened. I have become a lot tougher. [01:20:21] And I mean, there are times I think, "Ugh, I need to be more strict." [01:20:26] But, you know. I'll tell you what, Curtis, the [01:20:31] hard line is I'm their, [01:20:36] I'm their grandma. I should be able to be their grandma. That [01:20:41] right was taken from me

Curtis: Right. I get it[01:20:46]

Tina: That line is hard [01:20:51] You know, a lot of times I'm like, "It's not fair."

Curtis: Sure[01:20:56]

Tina: That I have to be this m- parent, this mom to them [01:21:01] when I, I wanna be their grandma I wanna spoil [01:21:06] 'em

Tina: And I can't. [01:21:11] I gotta be tough.

Curtis: I have a

Tina: Tim I'd be tough.

Curtis: I have a [01:21:16] grandbaby and I, I c- I'm-- You just, you just put me in my place 'cause I'm, [01:21:21] I get to be that

Curtis: to this, to this, little kid and it's, it's [01:21:26] amazing. And so I, I understand the dilemma, [01:21:31] um, because I, I go off for one day a week to be, to be Pop Pop,[01:21:36]

Curtis: but then I gotta come back to these four kids still at home and be[01:21:41]

Tina: Yeah.

Curtis: And, it's like this... Uh, yeah, I get it

Tina: Yeah, it's tough[01:21:46]

Tina: But so that's probably like [01:21:51] the, one of the harder things that I still battle with sometimes, and [01:21:56] that's once in a while, you know. I, especially when, [01:22:01] um, like I go somewhere, [01:22:06] like I, I just went out of town for a convention and things and I'm like, oh my gosh, I could just spoil them. [01:22:11] I could just buy all these things.

Tina: But for one thing, I don't have the money now because I have these [01:22:16] kids, you know? So I have the kids and, [01:22:21] uh, you know, household d- I have to manage and take care of and, [01:22:26] um, so But it's like I [01:22:31] just want to be able to spoil them

Curtis: I wanna, I wanna say s- some [01:22:36] things to you. You have um, [01:22:41] taking us on the journey. It's a hard journey, um [01:22:46] Uh, for we, we've had this on the schedule now [01:22:51] for, for several weeks and, um, I knew I would struggle with this one. [01:22:56] Um But I just did a [01:23:01] podcast with, uh, Artie Saunders. He's the president, the new president at OCU. [01:23:06] That's how you and I are connected is through we used to work there together years and years ago. [01:23:11] And, um, I want you to know that Artie Saunders [01:23:16] was raised by his grandparents [01:23:21] [01:23:26] I was doing this podcast with [01:23:31] him, and as soon as I heard that part of the story, I knew we had [01:23:36] this on the docket. And I thought to myself, "Man [01:23:41] Artie Sanders' dad was an alcoholic. He was an [01:23:46] abusive alcoholic. He died an alcoholic. [01:23:51] Um, but he was raised by his grandparents who loved him and [01:23:56] encouraged him and took him to church and got him involved in, you know, church [01:24:01] things and singing and all these things. And, you know, and here's a man who worked for, you know, [01:24:06] John Maxwell, greatest leader on the planet when it comes to teaching [01:24:11] leadership.

Curtis: And Jo- you know, Artie has stood in front of hundreds of thousands [01:24:16] of people and been a minister, too. He, he's now the, you know, college [01:24:21] president. And I thought to myself, I said, T- I thought to myself, "I don't wanna miss this opportunity [01:24:26] to say, 'Tina, you don't know what God's gonna do.'" [01:24:31] Because [01:24:36] of your faithfulness and what God's allowed you to go [01:24:41] through to be the mom of these three beautiful [01:24:46] children. And they are, they're a handful,

Curtis: but

Curtis: they are [01:24:51] great kids. And, and, um, I couldn't help... I did a quick [01:24:56] Google search. It's crazy. I was like, "Famous people who were raised by their [01:25:01] grandparents." It's a long list. You wouldn't believe. You should do it sometime. I was amazed. I was

Curtis: [01:25:06] like, "Holy cow." And then I even Googled, um, famous evangelists and [01:25:11] pastors who were raised by their grandparents. And, um, I thought, [01:25:16] "Man God is not going to leave [01:25:21] this situation void. He has a plan. He has a purpose and he's using you and he's strengthening [01:25:26] you.

Curtis: And, um, I know you miss Tim. Um, [01:25:31] I don't understand. We don't understand. Um, people are [01:25:36] always asking me, um, how do you do it, Curtis? And my first [01:25:41] response is, is because I have to. I don't really have--

Curtis: You know what I mean? I don't have a choice. [01:25:46] And that's what, that's what you said to me is like, "What else are we gonna do?" You know? We have [01:25:51] to do this.

Tina: Right. Well, when peop- when people, uh, they like, [01:25:56] "I don't know how you do it," I'm like, "Well, just because I'm doing it doesn't mean I'm doing it well."[01:26:01]

Curtis: You're doing it well. You, you are. Um, [01:26:06] but I wanted to remind you of that, that man, and I know you know this in your heart, [01:26:11] but these kids are still young, and it just feels like work, and it's a ton of effort and [01:26:16] a lot of schedules. I know last night you were still at dance and things till like 9:30, and then you [01:26:21] had to get them home and get them to bed and, and then get them ready for school this morning, and then get ready to [01:26:26] be on a podcast this morning.

Curtis: We were both talking about how tired we were because [01:26:31] I was off coaching little kids soccer last night until late, and it was a big game, and I was [01:26:36] all emotional, and I, I'm tired today.

Tina: Yeah, is, this is...

Curtis: it's, it's, [01:26:41] um, it's hard stuff, but it's worthwhile stuff. And, um, [01:26:46] I just really, truly believe, um, God is gonna do something special.

Curtis: I [01:26:51] want you to know I'm proud of you.

Curtis: I've been

Curtis: your friend and Tim's friend for a really long time and, [01:26:56] and, um, going through my own stuff, you know, sometimes we don't get to get to [01:27:01] connect on the deepest levels because, you know, we have our own things that we're, we're trying to work through. [01:27:06] But I have, um, just a couple questions for you. Um, [01:27:11] I know the answer to this question, but I decided to put a list of questions together for [01:27:16] my podcast with guests, uh, for this next season. Are you the same p- person you used [01:27:21] to be?

Tina: Absolutely not. And, you [01:27:26] know, it's funny, um, in a way, like, I don't know if it's funny or not, but [01:27:31] it's weird. 'Cause grief is weird. But, um, I, [01:27:36] I am trying to figure out who I

Curtis: Sure

Tina: [01:27:41] I, I mean, it's tough.

Tina: Like I I that is somebody out there is like, [01:27:46] "No, and I don't even know

Curtis: who I am anymore."

Tina: Yeah, it's true. Like I am still [01:27:51] trying to figure it out because I'm not, you [01:27:56] know, Cody's mom so much anymore, not Tim's wife anymore. [01:28:01] Uh, I don't know

Curtis: So next part of that question, and I'm not trying to trip you up, I'm [01:28:06] just, I think that these are valid questions that we as grievers go [01:28:11] through. Am I a better version of myself or a worst version of [01:28:16] myself?

Tina: Um, [01:28:21]

Curtis: And maybe it's diff- there's-- No, it's not. But, okay, so [01:28:26] overall, I, I think I'm better. I'm definitely stronger in a [01:28:31] lot of ways, but there's also a part of me [01:28:36] that has put up such a wall[01:28:41]

Tina: And I don't know how to take it down. There [01:28:46] is a wall, um, when it comes to a lot, [01:28:51] several things. But, um,

Tina: I just trust that, [01:28:56] you

Curtis: it a protective wall?

Curtis: Is it a protective... Well, I know what you're saying relationship-wise. I, I [01:29:01] get that part. Um, but is it a wall? 'Cause I, I, [01:29:06] feel like my circle has gotten very small,

Tina: Mm-hmm.

Curtis: And I protect [01:29:11] myself so hard.

Curtis: Like [01:29:16] I... It is... Does that ring a bell? Does that make sense? [01:29:21] Okay. I don't know that it's a bad thing. I, I,

Curtis: I am working through that as well. You're at [01:29:26] year three. Well, you're at year four for Koda, year three for Tim. I'm at year four for [01:29:31] Michael, and, and I've experienced those walls where I'm very protective of [01:29:36] these kids. I'm very protective of myself, my heart, my... Like, my [01:29:41] circle is small.

Tina: Yes.

Curtis: Okay

Tina: Um, I, [01:29:46] I would say that, and then, um, but also there's a [01:29:51] wall, um, for emotion.[01:29:56]

Curtis: Hmm

Tina: But, um, I mentioned this [01:30:01] to you earlier, and honestly, I-- it didn't hit me until [01:30:06] maybe a week or two ago that I [01:30:11] think I have some PTSD

Curtis: Sure.

Tina: from some of the things I've [01:30:16] been through, and I never thought of it as that until, like, it, like, just dawned on me a [01:30:21] couple weeks ago.

Curtis: Triggers. I get triggered so easy by certain things. Yeah, absolutely.[01:30:26]

Curtis: Yeah, and, and, and, and, they'll come out of nowhere,

Curtis: you know? And you're like, "I didn't even know that would be a [01:30:31] trigger."

Curtis: So I get that. Here's another one for you [01:30:36] How do you see God now [01:30:41] than before?[01:30:46]

Tina: How do I see him now than before? Um [01:30:51] To me... Okay, so [01:30:56] before I would say, like, I mean, I, you know, yes, we had a [01:31:01] great relationship, and I trusted in him, and I knew he was [01:31:06] faithful. But he seemed, I [01:31:11] don't know how to explain it, like maybe a little farther off

Curtis: Mm-hmm.

Tina: [01:31:16] Maybe. And now he seems closer, [01:31:21] um, and n- [01:31:26] not-- I mean, he's, he's, he's big [01:31:31] and, but yet also small and smaller [01:31:36] and more near personal.

Tina: Yeah. [01:31:41] Um, and honestly, I'm just being transparent and honest here. [01:31:46] I probably, I pray more probably than I used to, [01:31:51] um, but I'm not in his word as much as I used to be. [01:31:56] I'm working on that. But yet he still [01:32:01] seems closer

Curtis: Yeah. I think, um, uh, and I've [01:32:06] talked to some of people that you know, friends

Curtis: who couldn't pray [01:32:11] during grief or couldn't get in the Word, but yet still felt His [01:32:16] presence. I don't think that's abnormal at all, Tina. I struggle because [01:32:21] sometimes it's just being a... For me, in the last few [01:32:26] years, yeah, I'm gonna do it, but it just feels like a task

Tina: Yeah[01:32:31]

Curtis: Yeah, I'm gonna pray, but it just feels like a task. And so my moments, my, [01:32:36] my intimate moments with God are different. Uh, the, the [01:32:41] reason I ask this question is because all my relationships are different. [01:32:46] Like that's back to that smaller circle. Um, grief makes [01:32:51] everything different. Our lives are never gonna be quite the same, but our relationship with God [01:32:56] also is different. Um, and, and I'm still [01:33:01] working through that. And so that was why I asked the question, 'cause I'm, I'm trying to even [01:33:06] formulate my own thoughts around that question of what does that mean? 'Cause, um, [01:33:11] I think it's important, uh, for people to know that [01:33:16] it may not be what it used to be

Tina: Ja [01:33:21]

Curtis: But that doesn't mean it's gone. That means it's different, and we have to figure [01:33:26] out how it's different and how we can continue to build that [01:33:31] relationship with our Heavenly Father. But I understand the scripture part.

Tina: Yeah. [01:33:36] all

Tina: It wa- uh, but I will say, I mean, I've never struggled [01:33:41] with the prayer part.

Curtis: Sure

Tina: say also that [01:33:46] I honestly thought that God would make [01:33:51] Tim a miracle story

Curtis: Sure.

Tina: because he was so good, [01:33:56] you know? In fact, I used to say, I, I used to pray, I'm like, you know, "God, why him? [01:34:01] He's a much better person than I am.

Tina: Why him and not me?" And [01:34:06] then, and it hit me one day too, I was like, "Well, yeah, he's taking-- He's, he's better off [01:34:11] than I am now. So yeah, he's, he took the good guy Yeah.[01:34:16]

Tina: he deserves it."

Curtis: I've, I've thought that, that she, she [01:34:21] wouldn't wanna come back.

Tina: Yeah

Curtis: Yeah. He would not wanna come back.

Tina: [01:34:26] Mm-mm.

Tina: And

Curtis: presence of

Curtis: Jesus

Tina: Right. And I'll tell you too, um, [01:34:31] people sometimes would ask him, you know, knowing [01:34:36] that what caused his cancer was being in Iraq

Tina: around those burn [01:34:41] pits. People would say, you know, "If you knew then what you know now, [01:34:46] would you not have been in the military?" And he said, "No, I would've done it."[01:34:51]

Tina: He said, "That was a choice I made." He said, and that was in [01:34:56] 2004 He said, "God gave me an extra [01:35:01] 19 years. How can I complain about that?"

Curtis: Wow.

Tina: You know, he could've taken [01:35:06] me then

Curtis: Mm-hmm

Tina: because there were so many close calls for [01:35:11] him when he was in Iraq, roadside bombs and

Tina: such. [01:35:16] Um, but he's like, "He gave me an extra 19 [01:35:21] years."

Curtis: Perspective, yeah

Tina: yeah. Mm-hmm.

Curtis: How do you view others [01:35:26] now generally?

Tina: Oh gosh. [01:35:31] Um, depends on the others. [01:35:36] Um, people that are near to me, my family, [01:35:41] um I, [01:35:46] I do wanna soak up the time with them more.

Curtis: Mm-hmm.

Tina: [01:35:51] Um, but it, it's, it's hard with our schedules. But, um, I do feel [01:35:56] more near to them and, um, I would say that, you know, little [01:36:01] petty things that used to bother me don't anymore.

Curtis: Sure.[01:36:06]

Tina: They just don't.

Tina: I'm like, "Eh, that does not even matter," you know? [01:36:11] Um, I think I love [01:36:16] my close circle deeper,

Curtis: Mm-hmm.

Tina: In a different way too, but it's [01:36:21] deeper. Um, and I value [01:36:26] who they are more

Curtis: Yeah [01:36:31]

Tina: but on the other hand, [01:36:36] the people that are outside of that circle, there's, you know, there's people that are just [01:36:41] a little bit outside of that circle I still love and care about, but I have to protect my [01:36:46] time and

Curtis: Yes.

Curtis: Mm-hmm

Tina: So [01:36:51] may have to shut them out m- a little more than I used to.

Curtis: Yep

Tina: And then there's people [01:36:56] beyond that, you know, that, um, sure if I [01:37:01] come across them or whatever, "Hey," you know, what- but I can't spend that extra [01:37:06] time and energy. I have to really be picky about who gets my time and [01:37:11] energy

Curtis: Sure. Do you find that, um... [01:37:16] I don't wanna use cynical. That's the wrong word. I think you used the word picky, and I think [01:37:21] that's a good one. I think my sensitivity towards the outside, [01:37:26] my senses are heightened where I'll-- I [01:37:31] can love you and pray for you, but I don't have time for frauds and fakes and, [01:37:36] you know, people who are going to hurt or harm, like you said, [01:37:41] our time, our energies, these kids.

Curtis: Like,

Curtis: the [01:37:46] walls go up. Love you, pray for you, but you can't have our time.[01:37:51]

Curtis: Does that make sense? And so I think pick- I don't want-- Again, I, that might sound cynical [01:37:56] to the outside world, but it's a real thing for a griever and a [01:38:01] protector

Tina: Yes, I agree. And there might be a better word for it, but our grief brain [01:38:06] just can't think of it.

Curtis: Oh yeah,

Tina: Just can't

Curtis: sure, [01:38:11]

Curtis: Well, I, I wanna start using some of those questions on a [01:38:16] regular basis with, with my guests because I think, um, I think it'll [01:38:21] begin to connect some dots for some people. And, um, I asked you to do something, and I [01:38:26] know we've gone long, um, and it's okay. Um, I want your [01:38:31] story to connect and, and somebody out there is going to, um, be [01:38:36] blessed and helped because of it. But I asked you to do something for me. Take a couple minutes and [01:38:41] speak into the mother, the grandparent, the family member who has [01:38:46] lost a child, who has had to deal with drugs, who has had to deal with [01:38:51] those kinds of things. And, um, from a mother to a mother, just, just [01:38:56] share your heart for a couple minutes

Tina: Um, [01:39:01] I would say if, if you're going through the time [01:39:06] of you still have your child, but they, [01:39:11] they're battling this addiction. Um, for one thing, like I always say, [01:39:16] no one wakes up in the morning and says, "I wanna be addicted to [01:39:21] drugs." You know? It's not something that someone just [01:39:26] chooses to do. Um, in a lot of ways it is an illness.

Tina: I know [01:39:31] there's a lot of stigma around that. I don't care. But, um, [01:39:36] it's not a, it's not a true choice that someone makes. No one wants that. [01:39:41] No one wants that life. They feel guilty. They [01:39:46] do take advantage of you because you're the closest thing. [01:39:51] Um, and I know as a mom, the tough love is so hard. [01:39:56] So hard. But you really have [01:40:01] to Put that foot down, put that [01:40:06] protective wall up.

Tina: It is what's best for them. [01:40:11] The tough love, the not giving money, not, [01:40:16] um... I don't know. Man, you know, Kody used to show up at my work [01:40:21] and be begging for money, [01:40:26] and knowing that, you know, [01:40:31] eventually I would have to cave in because I've gotta get him away from there. [01:40:36] He would look a mess.

Tina: But the main thing, the tough [01:40:41] love, um, protect the rest of your household, your [01:40:46] family, um, because they didn't make the choice either.

Tina: [01:40:51] And, uh, you can still love on them. You can still [01:40:56] spend time with them, um, even though it gets hard.

Tina: The reason why I [01:41:01] separated so much from Cody was because I couldn't deal with the [01:41:06] constant begging for money, the sob stories, the lies that he would [01:41:11] tell me. Um, it was hard because as a mom, your [01:41:16] mind and heart go to, "Well, what if that is true? What [01:41:21] if the, that is the true situation?" You know, I need to [01:41:26] give him money.

Tina: You know, maybe there are people coming after him [01:41:31] You know? What if I don't give him the money and [01:41:36] someone comes after him, beats him up or worse? But [01:41:41] what if you do give him the money[01:41:46]

Tina: And that's the time that he buys [01:41:51] the drugs that are laced with [01:41:56] things that he doesn't know that are in there, you know? Um, [01:42:01] they got a little too much fentanyl, you know, just a drop of too much fentanyl, [01:42:06] and that can kill someone. So what if that [01:42:11] money

Tina: Calls back

Tina: [01:42:16] so that's the tough love

Curtis: Yeah [01:42:21] I've, I've

Curtis: tried to put myself in your shoes and I have a hard, hard [01:42:26] question. Um [01:42:31] Heaven or comfort [01:42:36] There [01:42:41] had to be a point in your, in your mind where you were like, "I just want him to be in heaven. That's the [01:42:46] most important thing, and however he gets there, I have to accept that path."

Tina: Yeah [01:42:51] I'll tell you, and again being completely [01:42:56] transparent, when he first started [01:43:01] having problems with drugs before it got real [01:43:06] bad, I used to, I used to say, I used to pray, [01:43:11] "Lord, if as a child he has a better chance of getting into heaven[01:43:16]

Tina: Take him[01:43:21]

Tina: Um, [01:43:26] and then of course, things did get really bad. And then I used to, [01:43:31] I started praying, "Lord, if you take him when it's [01:43:36] time, you know, that it be a time that [01:43:41] He is seeking you [01:43:46] And Lord, please don't let him die of an overdose

Curtis: Yeah[01:43:51]

Tina: I don't know why, but I just felt like if he didn't die of an [01:43:56] overdose, he would die with a little more dignity

Curtis: Mm-hmm.

Tina: [01:44:01] So God did answer a lot of those prayers.

Tina: Um [01:44:06] You know

Curtis: And I don't mean to make it harder. I just...

Curtis: You're speaking into [01:44:11] the heart of another mother or a grandparent out there who is either experiencing [01:44:16] this or has experienced this, and, and, I know that's a connection that only you guys [01:44:21] have. And, um

Tina: And, you know, and I [01:44:26] do have times now that I feel kinda guilty that, um, I'm, I miss him [01:44:31] so much. And I'm especially that he was turning back into the [01:44:36] Cody that I knew and loved so deeply. Um, [01:44:41] but I also know that he would never leave his [01:44:46] girlfriend

Tina: He would always be around people [01:44:51] that would drag him back into it [01:44:56] So I have the comfort of knowing he's in [01:45:01] heaven.

Tina: I have no doubt that that's where he is now because of Friday.

Tina: [01:45:06] because of that, like, I actually [01:45:11] have this, the peace and the joy. [01:45:16] Um, and sometimes, you know, I feel like, oh, you know, I'm kinda happy. [01:45:21] You know, I don't have him begging me for money. I don't have [01:45:26] that stress and anxiety. [01:45:31] The children don't have to see that They have [01:45:36] happy thoughts of their dad, happy [01:45:41] memories.

Tina: You know, they didn't have to see what I [01:45:46] saw

Curtis: And then I wanna leave with this. What would be Tim's message to the [01:45:51] world before he left for heaven?

Tina: Oh my gosh. You didn't prep me [01:45:56] for that one.

Tina: What would [01:46:01] Tim's message for the world be? Oh my gosh. Um[01:46:06] [01:46:11] [01:46:16]

Tina: Love deeply, for sure [01:46:21] Help everywhere, everywhere you can, [01:46:26] anyone you can

Tina: while still [01:46:31] protecting your family

Tina: but You [01:46:36] know, I kinda like also like [01:46:41] Cody when he was little, going around asking everybody, "Do you know Jesus?" You [01:46:46] know, "Why don't you know him? You need to know Jesus." [01:46:51] Um, and [01:46:56] I think that he would say that he really has [01:47:01] no regrets of the choices that he made, the things [01:47:06] that led him to where he was [01:47:11] Um, and then the [01:47:16] logical part of him would probably say [01:47:21] But be prepared.

Tina: You know, um, [01:47:26] we had decent life insurance, which, you know, allowed me to pay the [01:47:31] house off and things, so I didn't have that burden.

Tina: But we could have been more prepared for [01:47:36] sure.

Tina: You know, be prepared, make sure your family's taken care of. Um, [01:47:41] do all the things. Um-

Curtis: Let's go

Tina: [01:47:46] Yeah

Curtis: I kinda knew that's what you'd say,

Tina: [01:47:51] Ja.

Curtis: ' cause that's Tim.

Tina: Mhm.

Curtis: Yeah. It's good[01:47:56]

Tina: And he probably say it's a, he'd probably say it's okay to spend two hours in the grocery store [01:48:01] if you're talking to

Tina: people For sure.

Tina: And you walk out with [01:48:06] nothing. That's okay.

Curtis: Well, Tina, thank you for doing [01:48:11] this. Um, it's helped me. Um, [01:48:16] yeah. I'ma pray us out. Is [01:48:21] that fair? Okay. Lord, um, first of all, I'm gonna [01:48:26] come to you and say thank you for being such a great God and a comforter and a helper [01:48:31] and a friend You say that you stick [01:48:36] closer to us than a brother, and, um, we're, we're grateful for that. [01:48:41] Lord, thank you for Tina, thank you for these kids. Thank you for her [01:48:46] family who has stepped in over and over and over. Um, the [01:48:51] friendships that they have. Lord, thank you that she was married to Tim. Thank you for his

Curtis: life. [01:48:56] Thank you for his legacy.

Tina: Det kan det også

Curtis: And, um, [01:49:01] Lord, thank you that we know that Cody is [01:49:06] in heaven. Lord, we don't like the life, we don't understand the life, [01:49:11] but we know, especially as grievers, how short this life [01:49:16] is, and we know that, um, the only thing that matters at the end of the [01:49:21] day is our relationship with you, and that we have an eternity to spend with our [01:49:26] Heavenly Father, so we're grateful for that. And Lord, for those people who are gonna hear this [01:49:31] episode today or down the road, and, um, [01:49:36] Lord, I pray that somehow that if they don't know you, they'll find you. If they don't [01:49:41] understand this peace that we talk about, that they'll seek you [01:49:46] and begin to understand it. Lord, I pray for some mom, some grandparents, some [01:49:51] families who are raising grandkids to know that they are not alone, and that there, [01:49:56] there are people out there doing this and doing it well. Lord, for, [01:50:01] for the parent who has a child addicted to drugs, [01:50:06] Lord, I pray specifically for them. Lord, give them the strength, because it really is only [01:50:11] strength from you that can help them get through this. And, um, give them wisdom, [01:50:16] give them strength to deal with this, Lord. And for those families that have lost a [01:50:21] child because of drugs, Lord, you, you are the comforter.

Curtis: We pray that you would come [01:50:26] alongside them even right now.

Curtis: And so Lord, we love you,

Curtis: and we [01:50:31] are so grateful for you, and, um, we ask all these things in your name. [01:50:36] Amen.

Tina: Amen

[01:50:41] [01:50:46] [01:50:51] [01:50:56] [01:51:01] [01:51:06]

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