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20261022 - 4 Year Episode.txt

[00:00:01] Hey, friend. I just had to get on here and praise God a little bit, because I have to say I [00:00:06] was in such a low place when Curtis entered my life. [00:00:11] I probably could have fallen for any creeper or any jerk, um, [00:00:16] truly. Like... And like I just said, you really don't know [00:00:21] what a good man looks like, so I probably... I mean, you have some ideas because you, [00:00:26] you know, I'm wiser than I was 20 years ago, and I've seen things in relationships.But [00:00:31] anybody can fake it, you know what I'm saying? Um, and yeah, Curtis is not perfect, and we are not [00:00:36] perfect. But I, I was thinking the other night before I went to bed, I was like, "You know, if I [00:00:41] died now, I would be so happy that I got to experience what a real marriage [00:00:46] is, what a God-centered marriage is for the last almost two years this [00:00:51] summer."Um, and some people go through their whole life and never get that. Never get... [00:00:56] I always used to wonder when people were like, "My spouse is my best friend." Like, what is that? [00:01:01] Um, and I'm like, I get to experience that, the good, the bad, and the ugly, where we both [00:01:06] show up, and we're both committed. And he, I- I mean, Curtis is just an [00:01:11] incredible man on, like, a whole different level, and I had no [00:01:16] idea.Literally, God just inserted him into my life. I tell him all the time, I'm [00:01:21] like, "Babe, you're my hero because you literally could have been anybody, but [00:01:26] you're just this incredible man who God sent to literally rescue me and my kids." And [00:01:31] he's will forever be my hero. And I am very thankful to God. And we've had [00:01:36] some...Man, we work through the hard stuff. We've got hard stuff to work through like everybody else. [00:01:41] And it is heart-wrenching and gut-wrenching to work through the hard, but I've never had that. I've [00:01:46] never had anybody who's willing to work through the really hard. Never had that. And it's so, [00:01:51] it's incredible, um, good, bad, and ugly, and showing up every [00:01:56] day, and I'm so thankful.Zach: Well, great morning, afternoon, [00:02:01] evening, everybody. Whatever time of day it is, we wanna welcome you to the Run to the [00:02:06] Hard podcast. Uh, obviously you can tell I am not your usual host. My [00:02:11] name is Zach Carpenter, and, uh, I am a fan and a friend of the Run to the Hard [00:02:16] podcast, but more importantly, I'm a friend of Curtis and Michal Christopher.Zach: And so [00:02:21] we just wanna welcome you to the podcast today, wherever you're tuning in, watching, listening from, and just [00:02:26] say we hope that something today, something that you listen to, something that just [00:02:31] kinda grabbed your heart, helps move you forward in whatever stage of life you find [00:02:36] yourself today. So again, thank you.Zach: Thanks for taking time out. You know there's millions of podcasts out there, [00:02:41] so thanks for tuning into this one, and we hope it really is a blessing to you today. So [00:02:46] Curtis, my man, uh, we're flipping roles here today, right? A little, little role [00:02:51] reversal. Um, I get to ask the questions, and you get to be in the hot seat, man.Zach: So, [00:02:56] um, so I think everybody's excited probably to hear a little bit about that. And just in case [00:03:01] anybody's wondering, this, uh, is happening right now on October 9th. [00:03:06] October 9th is the four-year celebration of Michal's [00:03:11] heavenly homegoing. Obviously hard for us at home, but man, she [00:03:16] is with God. She is in glory, and so we, we celebrate that [00:03:21] even though we grieve the loss here at home.Zach: And so today, that's why we're doing this this way, [00:03:26] because today's a big day. Today's a lot of memories. Today's a lot of heart stuff, [00:03:31] and today's a lot of hard stuff. So as we just kinda dive in, [00:03:36] um, we're excited for you to jump in with us on this. Um, and what [00:03:41] you got to hear earlier, uh, as we started was an [00:03:46] unbelievable message that ended up in Curtis's hands, [00:03:51] ears, heart just a little over a month ago, and he sent it to me, and I was [00:03:56] like, "Dude, what a beautiful gift."Zach: And so you guys [00:04:01] probably already caught that already. I mean, what a gift. What an amazing gift from God that that was. [00:04:06] So, um, so here we are, man. You're in the hot seat today. Um, so what's, what's today [00:04:11] look like for you? Here we are October 9th, 2026. What, what does it look like to you today, [00:04:16] man?Curtis: Yeah. Well, first of all, that message, um, when I tracked [00:04:21] it, here's how I, here, here's how I discovered it. Uh, one of Michal's, uh, childhood friends, [00:04:26] um, Michal had sent that message to her the summer before she got [00:04:31] sick. Um, and that friend, on the day that Michal passed [00:04:36] away four years ago, sent it to me that afternoon. Now, [00:04:41] imagine the hundreds of messages I was getting, you know, all day long, and obviously [00:04:46] I don't remember it. If I saw it, I don't remember it. But [00:04:51] here, four years later, that friend messaged me for another reason, [00:04:56] and I scrolled up and I was like, "Well, wait a minute. What, what is this?" And I click on it, and I [00:05:01] was like, "You gotta be kidding me." A message from, from my wife [00:05:06] bragging on her husband. Like, it wrecked me. Um, and, and I played it [00:05:11] over and over and over and over. And, and the interesting part about that was [00:05:16] that I was struggling about this, this podcast. Lord, I don't, I don't know if I [00:05:21] wanna do this anymore. This is hard. It's triggering. It takes a ton of [00:05:26] time . And I was in this quandary because, you know, we're trying to raise money for a foundation and give it away to [00:05:31] help people, and this podcast is kind of the catalyst of what gets the foundation in [00:05:36] front of people, so understand the, the struggle that I'm having. But you wanna talk about a [00:05:41] concrete moment, was like, "Okay, God, You've got my attention. [00:05:46] Michal, you've got my attention." Like, it was the thing that said, "You [00:05:51] gotta do this." And so the next week I must have called 10 people. And so if you're tuning into the [00:05:56] podcast, you need to know that in the last month this-- all of this is happening that fast, and [00:06:01] God has been giving us really great guests and, and, uh, we have a mission and we wanna, we [00:06:06] wanna point people to Jesus no matter what you've been through, and we want you to get unstuck from [00:06:11] whatever you're stuck in, and we want you to serve God in the best possible way. And, and so [00:06:16] that's what that message did, is it just has kinda relaunched me and given [00:06:21] me purpose. Um, but today First of all, uh, [00:06:26] last night when I went to bed I had all these grandiose ideas. I'm gonna get up and have [00:06:31] breakfast and maybe go for a long walk and, youCurtis: know, check in to see... [00:06:36] Not good at all. Like, I, it just didn't, I, I've been, let's see, what is it, [00:06:41] 9:30? Um, I mean, I've been crying since, like, 5:00 AM this morning. [00:06:46] I, I woke up crying. I, I read a couple messages, uh, 'cause I always get messages on this [00:06:51] day, and it wrecked me. And I was like, "Well, I gotta stop. Well, I can't read any more messages. I'm [00:06:56] just done." And so, and so then I went for a little bit of a walk, and I listened to some worship [00:07:01] music, and that wrecked me. And so about a half hour ago, I'm like, "Man, [00:07:06] I gotta get my act together." And of course I hadn't showered or anything, and so I was like, "Well, [00:07:11] it's ball cap day." And so, and so y- this is what you get [00:07:16] today, and it's, it's all good. But, um, you know, you and I had planned this a couple weeks ago, [00:07:21] and I thought then it would be a great idea. We'll, we'll see how it turns out.Zach: Yeah, exactly. [00:07:26] ExactlyCurtis: you know, I gave the kids marching orders last night. I said, "Hey," I said, "I'm gonna do this [00:07:31] podcast, and we're gonna talk about mom. But then, uh, a little bit later when I'm done, you know, we're gonna go to [00:07:36] Starbucks." You know, mom's favorite coffee shop was Starbucks even though she was so [00:07:41] conservative and hated everything they represented. But she's like, "I'mZach: You're like, [00:07:46] "Wait, hold on. Timeouts doesn't..." Yeah. Right, rightCurtis: I know. But she's like, "They have the [00:07:51] best, uh, venti vanilla latte. Like, I justCurtis: can't help it." And anyway,Zach: Oh, my [00:07:56] wordCurtis: so we're gonna, we're gonna go there in honor of her, get our coffees, and then we'll, we'll get some flowers [00:08:01] and go over to the cemetery. And so that's next on the agenda today. And then, [00:08:06] um, it seems weird 'cause, you know, today's the day we normally take off, and we just kinda hang around, [00:08:11] and we don't wanna be around people. But tonightZach: Hey, [00:08:16] what's Curtis: soccer, baby. Zach: So you guys have a big Curtis: younger kids, [00:08:21] yeah, the younger kids, they're playing for the league championship tonight. Curtis: And so, [00:08:26] umZach: It's a good thing your years of soccer coaching experience are coming in handy right now.[00:08:31] Curtis: Exactly.Zach: People may Curtis: No, when Zach: as some [00:08:36] do, Curtis was a basketball coach for a long time. Zero soccer life [00:08:41] until helping out now. So, uh, he's Curtis: it's all the same [00:08:46] thing. It's all the same thing. Passing, being in the right position, defense, [00:08:51] it's all good. Boxing out,Zach: There you go. Curtis: It's all good. No. So when the [00:08:56] coach stepped down, uh, at the end of last school year, I called Edward 'cause Edward was graduating from high [00:09:01] school, and I said, "Hey, why don't you coach your siblings, you know, Wesley and Quinn, in [00:09:06] soccer next year?" And he was like, "That's a great idea. Will you help me?" And I was like, " Sure." And so, Curtis: [00:09:11] um, the kids are 10-1-1 and are playing for a league [00:09:16] championship tomorrow. Zach: That's Curtis: From last year, I think they won two games and scored [00:09:21] five goals for the whole season. We scored 18 goals in the first three games [00:09:26] this year.Curtis: Like they're playing really, really well, and it'sCurtis: been... man, it's been a [00:09:31] blast. So that's why you see the Statesman gear today, is that we're getting ready for a championship game. [00:09:36] And so even though this is great stuff, I, I can't help [00:09:41] but, um, see Michal on the sidelines, see her face, listen to her [00:09:46] voice screaming and cheering these kids on. And, and so it's, it's interesting that [00:09:51] grief doesn't necessarily happen on the hardest days. Grief is [00:09:56] heaviest on the happiest days. And we don't [00:10:01] always know what that's gonna look like or how we're gonna prepare for that.Zach: Hold on. [00:10:06] Say, say that again about, about grief in those days. That's, that's a, that's a [00:10:11] big takeaway right thereCurtis: I was, I was thinking this morning that, [00:10:16] you know, today's a really happy day for the kids, and I thought, you know, [00:10:21] grief doesn't always happen on the hardest days. It typically is heaviest [00:10:26] on the happiest days.Zach: Yeah. Mm-hmm.Curtis: You know, we just, we [00:10:31] justZach: Cause you so Zach: want them to be there in the middle of, of all ofZach: it, which she would. She [00:10:36] would've been, and she would've been, she would've been the life of the party. She would've been organizing it. She would've been corralling [00:10:41] everybody. And so, yeah. And so yeah, awesome, cool, thankful, but oh, [00:10:46] Mom, wish you were here.Zach: Man. Mm. [00:10:51] Hmm.Curtis: Used to, I used to... This is a weird thought, but when that first [00:10:56] year when she passed away and I'd go to school events and stuff, I, I almost felt like I wanted [00:11:01] like a picture of mom on a stick that I could just hold up beside me, you [00:11:06] know? 'Cause that was hard. It was hard to watch the kids look out among [00:11:11] the audience looking for her face[00:11:16] [00:11:21] Zach: And that's real. I mean, for those of you [00:11:26] watching, that wasn't an editorial pause. We were just pausing because [00:11:31] those kind of things come up in life. Li- life happens all the time. For those of you guys that [00:11:36] don't know, I, I, I had the privilege of pastoring up in Sunbury, Ohio, and one of the things that we say at [00:11:41] our church, at Freedom Church all the time, 'cause sometimes we read Bible stories or so- you know, some [00:11:46] things from back in the past that happened and it's kind of like, oh, it seems like these holier-than-thou [00:11:51] people sitting around polishing their halos.Zach: But I s- I say to our people all the time, "What kind of people are in the Bible? [00:11:56] Real people."Zach: And that's what we're talking about today, real people [00:12:01] dealing with real things. And somebody right now, I... This wasn't in the notes. You are [00:12:06] listening right now, and you are in the middle of a real people, real hard day. [00:12:11] And so I hope right now, we're only 10 minutes in, we're not, we're not done yet, but, like, [00:12:16] I hope you just, just let it be what it is today, and know that the God [00:12:21] of the universe, we don't care where your faith is at this moment, [00:12:26] that it doesn't have any bearing before until now. But whatever it's been till this moment, you need to know the God of the [00:12:31] universe is with you.Zach: He loves you. He's not expecting you to pretend, and he's just here. [00:12:36] He's, he's just here. He's putting his arms around you. Nobody needs to say the right thing. He's just [00:12:41] present. So I, I hope you felt that today. I felt like we just needed a quick un- unplanned [00:12:46] timeout there for a second, so.Curtis: And let me, let me just take and [00:12:51] say a few things about you, 'cause somebody may or may not know who you are [00:12:56] in our story. But you know, Zach, over the, over the last two years, I've had the chance to [00:13:01] talk a lot about my circle. And, you know, and in grief, you know, that circle is [00:13:06] tight, and there's only a few people that you let it, let in it, and I want the world to know that [00:13:11] Zach Carpenter's in my circle. And, um, you know, we have walked some [00:13:16] hard roads over the years and, and there's very few [00:13:21] people that have been involved in the whole thing from top to bottom, from length, [00:13:26] you know, from all of it. And, and Zach Carpenter is one of those. And I, I used an [00:13:31] illustration long time ago in one of the podcasts where I was talking about, um, [00:13:36] the men who took their friend and tore off the roof of the [00:13:41] house to set their friend at the feet of Jesus. Zach: Yeah. It's one of my [00:13:46] favorites.Curtis: And, and I, and I talked about, you know, the people in my life [00:13:51] that have been there through these moments, and I want people to know that Zach Carpenter's [00:13:56] one of those guys. He's one of the guys tearing the roof off the house. [00:14:01] And so he's not here on accident. He is my friend, but he's here because he is [00:14:06] part of that circle and part of that group that have carried me before [00:14:11] Jesus. And, and my goal, especially in year four and, and, and with this whole new [00:14:16] series of, of episodes this year, is that I, I wanna become a carrier. [00:14:21] I wanna become one of the people who carry their friends to [00:14:26] Jesus. And I wanna encourage everybody listening to do the same. It's time that we [00:14:31] stop receiving the gift and start giving the gift. YeahZach: Mm. [00:14:36] I mean, people that don't follow Jesus know the phrase, "It's better to give than to receive," [00:14:41] and they don't realize he's the one that said it.Curtis: Yeah.Zach: That's where that all comes from, [00:14:46] and so it, it changes it. It does change it after you- Yeah and [00:14:51] if you guys don't know, uh, Curtis has been that to me for years now.Zach: [00:14:56] He's, he's been a, he's been a carrier, and he's encouraged me and helped me and- Yeah, [00:15:01] yeah ... we could... We'll pause. We don't need to have a bro love fest here in the middle of this, [00:15:06] but we just need... Yeah. um, but he is. He's, he's, he's been a [00:15:11] good friend. He's, he's lovingly smacked me around when I needed it. Um, he's [00:15:16] listened to me when I won't shut up.Zach: Um, you know, it's, it's, it's all... He's [00:15:21] laughing only 'cause it's true. But anyway, let's, uh, let's dive in a little further. What's, what's [00:15:26] maybe one of the best and one of the hardest things that you've learned about [00:15:31] grief specifically in the last four years? Um, we know that... Why we're asking that question, folks, uh, [00:15:36] we know that many of you are grieving or you know someone who is.Zach: It's why you're here. So [00:15:41] we want you to kinda be able to process through this with us. So Curtis, again, what's one of the best and one of [00:15:46] the hardest things you learned about grief over these last four years? Hey, guys. I wanted to [00:15:51] jump on here real quick. Zach does not know that I'm doing this, so it'll be a little bit of a [00:15:56] surprise when he gets to see this for the first time. But man, I just wanted to brag about my friend. You [00:16:01] know, on this podcast, um, over the last couple years, I talk a lot about your circle [00:16:06] of friends and the people that are helping you.And I'm not talking about just your grief friends, I'm [00:16:11] talking about your general friends, your spiritual heroes, the people that are helping you [00:16:16] in everyday life. And, uh, Zach and his wife Julie, they're in my circle. They're [00:16:21] those people. And, uh, I just wanted to tell you that Zach was my worship pastor for [00:16:26] a- I think over 10 years, and, uh, loves the Lord, uh, serves the Lord in [00:16:31] full-time ministry.But one of the requirements for those people that are in your circle is [00:16:36] that hopefully they've been through some stuff. How are they so good at helping you and praying [00:16:41] for you and pulling you out of what you're into? It's because they've, they've been through some stuff [00:16:46] themselves. And Zach and his wife Julie are no stranger to hard things.For years they [00:16:51] tried to get pregnant, and, uh, for years it failed. They got some medical help. [00:16:56] Um, they actually had several miscarriages, just heartbroken. And I remember some of those [00:17:01] early years and, um, how hard it was for them. But about 14 years [00:17:06] ago, they landed on adoption And they've adopted two beautiful kids, [00:17:11] and actually raised them from the time, uh, they were babies.And so they've raised these children [00:17:16] and, uh, have a beautiful family. And about two years ago, God called Zach and his wife [00:17:21] to full-time preaching ministry, to move out of the worship pastor [00:17:26] position and actually take a church. And so they have done a rebirth in [00:17:31] Sunbury, Ohio. And so for any of my Columbus friends, people in the area, man, if you're from [00:17:36] Westerville, New Albany, Sunbury, Centerville, Mount Vernon, I'm [00:17:41] just kind of going around the whole city here, you're not far from an amazing church, Freedom Church of [00:17:46] the Nazarene in Sunbury, Ohio.I, I have friends here in Circleville who actually drive an hour [00:17:51] up to attend church there or help Zach. And so I just want to tell you that he's doing a great [00:17:56] ministry. It's a rebirth of a church that he started with about 10 people, and, uh, they're running [00:18:01] about 100. And, um, I, I love to celebrate with other people the [00:18:06] successes that God is having in their lives.And I ... Seriously, what was just a [00:18:11] few days ago, Zach called me so excited. He had met a guy at the local coffee [00:18:16] shop, I believe it was, and, um, g- started a conversation with him, with it, which that's Zach. He [00:18:21] can talk to anybody. And next thing you know, they're at his office and he leads this young man to the Lord, and he [00:18:26] couldn't wait to tell me about it.But that's the kind of people that I have in my life. That's the [00:18:31] kind of people you need in your life. And so get connected, folks. Get [00:18:36] connected. And, um, hey, again, I say this all the time, if this podcast [00:18:41] helps you in any way, man, you know what to do. Like, subscribe, comment. [00:18:46] But, um, I hope you enjoy the rest of this particular podcast as we're giving updates on the kids and, [00:18:51] and what it's like to go through grief in year four, year five. And, [00:18:56] um, hey, love y'all, and we'll talk to you soon Curtis: I, [00:19:01] um, have kind of been tracking my yearly journey, you know, what year one, year two, year [00:19:06] three looks like, and then year four.Curtis: And sometimes myCurtis: brain [00:19:11] doesn't have words for the experience that I'm having. [00:19:16] And so sometimes somebody else says something and I'm like, "That's me. You just, [00:19:21] You Curtis: just said it." Does that make sense? And so lots of times when I don't have the words for it, I'll [00:19:26] see something or see something that somebody else wrote. Curtis: And I wrote this down probably Curtis: [00:19:31] about Curtis: maybe two, three months ago. Um, [00:19:36] the hardest thing Curtis: about grief Curtis: is waking up and discovering that I'm never [00:19:41] going to be the same. Never. [00:19:46] And, and I know for somebody out there who's in you know, month one, year, month [00:19:51] six, year one, and, and they're chasing. I, I know this feeling. I've been there. [00:19:56] They're chasing the old self. They want it to feel like this. They want it to look like this. [00:20:01] They want our home to feel like this and look like this. And, and I don'tCurtis: meanCurtis: to burst your bubble. Please [00:20:06] don't take this the wrong way. But it's taken me this long to finally realize that my [00:20:11] life is never going to be the same.Zach: Mm.Curtis: That's the hardest [00:20:16] part.Zach: Ja.Curtis: But, but there's a, but there's a flip to it. [00:20:21] If you turn that on its head and say that the best part about grief [00:20:26] Is that my life is never gonna be the same, [00:20:31] and there's a new story to be written.Zach: Each other is.Curtis: And I think, and I think that's the [00:20:36] season that I'm finally in. I'm finally like, "Okay, [00:20:41] What can my life look like now?" Zach: now?Curtis: It's, it's [00:20:46] almost like this blankCurtis: slateCurtis: where, with the help of [00:20:51] GodCurtis: I get to rewrite this thing. Curtis: And, and some of you are like, "Curtis, I'm [00:20:56] nowhere near that." And I, I, I get it, I understand. Like I, I understand, and, and it may [00:21:01] take a long time. There's no timetable to grief,Curtis: , and sometimes we read a book or we listen to a [00:21:06] podcast and we like think we're supposed to be at a certain point by this certain time, and guys, it's just, [00:21:11] it's not true. I, it took me three and a half years [00:21:16] to finally clean out Michal's closet. Three and a half years. And for some of you, you're like, "Well, [00:21:21] that's not long at all. I'm 12 years and I still haven't." And I've heard that story. And then I [00:21:26] know somebody who months in went in and just like cleaned out all the drawers and everything, and I was [00:21:31] like, "How did you do that?" And so again, timetables are this [00:21:36] misnomer that, uh, grief doesn't have a timetable. It is what it is and it's gonna be when it [00:21:41] is. And I, it took me that long to do that, but this, back to your, your question, what's the [00:21:46] hardest or best thing about grief, is thatZach: that.Curtis: When [00:21:51] I came face to face the f- for the fact, and here I am working with these kids, [00:21:56] Michal's children, and I don't have to say these words out loud, I'm very careful, but I'm [00:22:01] helping them realize that, yeah, our life's never gonna be what it once was, but, [00:22:06] but we can rewrite the script. And so for each one of them, God's [00:22:11] helping us rewrite their stories. And I feel like this [00:22:16] year we have begun to blossom and there are things [00:22:21] happening in our home, in our life right now that, I mean, honestly I don't even know how to [00:22:26] explain it. It's just really, really good. And there's a [00:22:31] new peace and a presence and there's a, there's a [00:22:36] pride. There's a pride coming from these kids like, "We love [00:22:41] our home, we love our family, and, and, and we're good." Like [00:22:46] this is the vocabulary that's starting to come out of them, which seems so weird, [00:22:51] Zach: Yeah. Curtis: When youCurtis: think about these kids and all, and all they've been through. [00:22:56] No.Zach: No.Curtis: Yeah. And soZach: HmmCurtis: I don't have that [00:23:01] all figured out, but I'm just giving you an insight into kind of where, what we're g- going [00:23:06] through right now and our brains are processing thisZach: And am I, am I [00:23:11] overthinking this? A, an example that came to mind while you were talking about this, uh, about new things [00:23:16] coming where you just, you would never expect it. I, I know it's an analogy that people have used over the years, [00:23:21] but it makes me think of like when a fire goes through somewhere and [00:23:26] it's just scorched earth.Zach: Everything is torched. Nothing [00:23:31] looks right. Everyth- it's, it's all been destroyed, and you're like, "Well, I, I guess [00:23:36] we're done. I guess..." But what, what happens? I'm... You can look on, you can look online right now [00:23:41] and find all sorts of videos. This patch that was black, [00:23:46] torched, every- you could hardly make out signs of life anywhere, if, if any.[00:23:51] Zach: And then you go back a year, two years, four years later and you're like, [00:23:56] "That's impossible. Curtis: Yeah Zach: Well, it's possible because of [00:24:01] who God is and because of the life that He can restore to places that we thought were [00:24:06] permanently lost. And so, I... Is, d- is that fair at all? Does it... I mean, is [00:24:11] it kinda like that?Zach: I mean, that's just what came into my mind as you wereCurtis: no, I think it's a good analogy. [00:24:16] And I, I remember going on a, a long cross-country trip with my son years ago,Curtis: [00:24:21] and I remember going up into the mountains and seeing these single [00:24:26] burnt up trees in the middle of this gorgeous, beautiful setting. And so the setting that you're talking [00:24:31] about is at one point there was a lightning strike and probably burnt the whole top of that [00:24:36] mountain to the ground, and now the top of the mountain is new growth. It's green, it's beautiful with flowers, [00:24:41] but there's this reminder standing at the top of this old crusty [00:24:46] burnt up blackCurtis: tree stump. So it doesn't go [00:24:51] away.Zach: MmCurtis: It's still there, but it's so [00:24:56] small compared to all of the beauty around it. Yeah. That's goodZach: [00:25:01] Mm. Wow. Um, okay, so let's, let's, let's pivot [00:25:06] for a second. Um, give us a, give us an update on the kids. How are they [00:25:11] doing? And a word that I like to say a lot in a lot of situations, how are they doing really? Like, [00:25:16] how, how, how are the kids really doing?Zach: You've had some pretty, you've had some pretty, [00:25:21] uh, monumental things happen in recent, in the recent past, Curtis: Yeah. [00:25:26] Well, let's start for somebody who's brand new and doesn't know our story is that [00:25:31] Michal and I were both, um, um, second marriage. Um, [00:25:36] both married, had terrible divorces right in this community, long, awful. You, you've been there, you [00:25:41] know the stories. And, and remarriage, God begins to rebuild us. I mean, honestly, we [00:25:46] are a beauty for ashes story as God's restoring these two broke people. I've got two grown [00:25:51] kids. She has five kids, and when I marry her, they're between the ages of five and 15. [00:25:56] Like, I'm, I-- And at that point, I was 50 years old, so life is crazy. [00:26:01] And then, uh, two years later, she gets sick and Curtis: dies.Curtis: And again, this is for [00:26:06] new, new people. Um, because of the divorce situation, Ella is the oldest, so Curtis: she [00:26:11] has the ability to say, "I wanna stay with Curtis." The other four are younger and have to go live with Curtis: their dad. [00:26:16] Curtis: And so at the funeral, I see four little kids get in a vehicle, and I don't know if I get to see them [00:26:21] again. And Curtis: then Curtis: o-over, with- only Curtis: God could have done this, uh, with [00:26:26] persistence and work towards building a relationship with their dad, Curtis: after about a year, we're Curtis: [00:26:31] buds. We're, We're, co-parenting these five children, [00:26:36] and he's on the road a lot, and he's Curtis: l-allowing me to help take care of them and things like that. Curtis: Well, a year [00:26:41] and a half ago in April, he dies of a heart attack.Curtis: and I findCurtis: myselfCurtis: in a [00:26:46] courtroom on a Monday morning trying to get temporary custody Curtis: of Curtis: true orphans. They have [00:26:51] no parents. And so, you know, if, if you know the story, you, you know [00:26:56] how it ends up. If you don't, I'm giving you a little snippet of,Curtis: of, of our [00:27:01] life. And so 30 days later, the God, God works this out with our local judge, and I get [00:27:06] full custody of these kids. And so theseCurtis: kids have been through it. [00:27:11] Like, they lose their mom four years ago, they lose their dad a year and a half ago, andCurtis: I'm I'm burned.[00:27:16] Curtis: I'm the single stepdad raising all these kids. And [00:27:21] so you wanna talk about a learning curve, youCurtis: know? Uh, it was like, wait a minute, I've raised my [00:27:26] kids. In fact, in fact, those last six months before, um, their dad passed away, [00:27:31] I was working really hard with him to restore relationships, [00:27:36] have some forgiveness, and some things happen with his own children so that he could prepare them for life and be the [00:27:41] best dad possible. Like, y- I want you to understand my mindset. I was [00:27:46] trying to help him become the dad he needed to be to raise these wonderful kids to [00:27:51] become what God has called them to be. And so I, in my mind, I'm like the glorified [00:27:56] babysitter. And so I'm not trying to get out of their lives, but I'm also trying to let him [00:28:01] Curtis: fulfill his, his duty as dad and, and, and move on. So I, I'm, I'm in a little bit of limbo. [00:28:06] Like, I love these kids to death, but he needs to do his work. And, and then he dies, [00:28:11] and I'm like, "Oh, man." And then all of the floods of, like, what I [00:28:16] promised Michal in the hospital. You know, I pro- She, she said, "I don't know what, what's gonna happen to my kids?" And I'm, [00:28:21] and I'm saying "Babe, right now I just wanna worry about you. God's got this. He's got this Curtis: figured [00:28:26] out." And my promise to her was, "Don't worry about it. God is so big and He's [00:28:31] so faithful, He's going to take care of them." Not knowing what that [00:28:36] was gonna look like. I'm like, "What?"Zach: [00:28:41] And make, youCurtis: can't make this stuff upZach: No, thankfully you're 25 [00:28:46] and young, lots of energy, you know, kinda like just full steam ahead, full steam ahead. [00:28:51] So what, uh, okay, tell everybody how old you are. Let everybody f- at home knowCurtis: All [00:28:56] right, so I'm 57 now, and, and let me just give you, uh, the rest of the updates. You know, Ella's [00:29:01] 22, just married. She lives out in Pennsylvania. She married this wonderful [00:29:06] pastor. He's a great kid, Daniel.Curtis: So Zach: the big things that happenedCurtis: Yeah, so [00:29:11] Daniel's in our life. Um, they're doing wonderful. We're gonna go out here in two weeks and visit. All [00:29:16] of us are gonna go out and visit her.Curtis: Um, Edward's 18. He graduated from high school back [00:29:21] in May. Edward, uh, fought the idea of going to college, but then landed on he [00:29:26] wanted to just start his own business, and so Edward has a lawn care landscaping company. He's 18 years [00:29:31] old and he's doing really well. He's got his little truck. It's, it's kinda cool when I am uptown [00:29:36] and I see the green Dodge go by with the trailer and the equipment on it, and I'm like, "That's my [00:29:41] boy." Like, that's, it's, it's honestly, it's awesome. I'm like... Zach: And hold on, hold on. [00:29:46] I'm gonna say this. Curtis isn't gonna say it. I'm gonna say it 'cause I'm, I'm not the one stepping in [00:29:51] as dad. Curtis has jumped in big time, folks, uh, to help [00:29:56] Edward get started. It w- I, I mean, again, I was... The word that kept coming to mind was [00:30:01] restoration. That's what you were working toward with, with the kids and with Ron, and just, and, [00:30:06] and, and leaning them into that lane of, these are the things that Jesus [00:30:11] followers do.Zach: This is exactly the thing we're tal- Run to the heart. Those aren't just easy little [00:30:16] things. And then, oh yeah, I don't have to do this, but this [00:30:21] kid, man, he's kinda feeling something. He's got some drive. And, and so you guys, you need to... That's what [00:30:26] Curtis jumped in and did. He was like, "Hey, I'm gonna help him get started.Zach: I'm gonna coach him, show him business [00:30:31] things." And he's had to work hard. Curtis isn't doing it all for him. But, like, you guys, that's the kinda [00:30:36] stuff we're talking about that, like, it's not on video. Nobody's out filming them [00:30:41] watching Curtis , you know, uh, coach and guide and mentor [00:30:46] and be a dad to a young man stepping into manhood.Zach: And so anyway, um, [00:30:51] yeah, I just had to throw that in there. I didn't want anybody to be like, "Oh, well that's, that's a nice pretty polished [00:30:56] story." No, no, no, like hard days, like work, investing. [00:31:01] And, and because of that, it's gonna continue to drop [00:31:06] in that spirit of restoration in him. He doesn't know it now at [00:31:11] 18, but as he gets older and he starts to experience things, and if God blesses him with a [00:31:16] family and he has k- Those kinda things are gonna stick.Zach: So sorry, I just had to, had to draw a [00:31:21] little bit of, put a little spotlight on that for everybody at home[00:31:26] Curtis: Yeah, to pick up. Yeah, so he's doing, he's doing really great. I mean, I get texts, I, [00:31:31] I'm not lying when I say I get texts every single week from his clients saying what [00:31:36] a wonderful young man. Hardworking, he's polite, he, he [00:31:41] just is doing a great job. Um, and so that's, that's a pretty proud [00:31:46] moment. I mean, I get those every single week, like all the time. I don't even know all of his clients. He keeps [00:31:51] coming home and telling me about this client who's, has this farm or has this business or has this, and [00:31:56] I'm like, "Wait a minute, what's their name?" And I'm like, "Are you kidding me? You're their guy?" And so I [00:32:01] mean, he's, he's building a clientele, like it's phenomenal. Anyways, Judah's 16. [00:32:06] Judah's driving. Um, Judah, uh, signed up for a full-time job this summer. So [00:32:11] Judah went from not working at all to this summer he's like, "Oh, I'll get a job." And so [00:32:16] he signed up to be a, a worker at the school, and they built furniture and cleaned the buildings and did carpets, [00:32:21] like 40 hours a week all summer long. And so it's super cool to see a kid just [00:32:26] like do it, like the light bulb, goes off, and he saved a bunch of money, and he's, you [00:32:31] know. And then Quinn, oh my goodness, she just turned 14 two days ago. [00:32:36] She's smart, intelligent, beautiful. She is the epitome of Michal. She Curtis: [00:32:41] lights up every single room she goes into. She has no enemies. [00:32:46] She has friends everywhere she goes. Uh, she has a smile that just goes. And then [00:32:51] Wesley is now 12 and orner as ever. He still gets away with murder. But [00:32:56] you know, remember these kids were 5 to 15 when I met them, and now they're 12 to [00:33:01] 22, and so life happens super fast. Now I wanna I wanna be [00:33:06] honest 'cause I'm painting a really good picture, and it is, guys. I'm not lying. Our life is [00:33:11] really, really good. But let me tell you about what it's like to raise a whole bunch of kids,Curtis: you [00:33:16] know, with, with just the normal stuff. So in the last year, in the last 12 [00:33:21] months, we've burned up a washer, a dryer, two [00:33:26] refrigerators in the same week. I had two refrigerators go out in the [00:33:31] same week 'cause, you know, we got all these kids. We got a refrigerator in the house and one in theCurtis: garage, and we Curtis: gotta keep a lot [00:33:36] of foodCurtis: going. And so, oh my goodness. And so then, this [00:33:41] is last week. Uh, th- so this is just last week. So the washer went out last [00:33:46] week, and we went like five or six days without laundry, and oh my word, that's terrible with this [00:33:51] many kids in soccer, working landscaping, and coaching, [00:33:56] like crazy stinky. So I had to get a washer. [00:34:01] The same week, uh, last Saturday I think it was, Edward goes out to work on the [00:34:06] work truck, and he forgot the trailer was attached to the back of it. And so he pulls it [00:34:11] around, he walks in the house, and he's... I can tell he's like, "Something's wrong." He goes, [00:34:16] "Dude, I hit your truck."Zach: Oh, my word[00:34:21] Curtis: I was like, "Well, what do you mean?" He said, "I forgot the trailer was on the back. I [00:34:26] cranked it right, took off, and I... the trailer hit your truck." And so I walk out there and, [00:34:31] and the, the fender to the trailer is so caved in on the [00:34:36] tire that we have to cut the fender off so that the trailer is usable. [00:34:41] And it, I mean, it hit the back of my truck and put a big dent in the bumper, and it's, it's gonna be okay. [00:34:46] But that's, you know, people wanna know what, what real life looks like. Well, then that's last [00:34:51] Saturday. So then I think Wednesday I get a call. God, I was glad I was home, but I get a [00:34:56] call and Judah's like, "Um, I'm on the side of the road and my car's not running." I said, "Well, what happened to it?" He said, [00:35:01] "Well, I noticed the, the temperature gauge went all the way to hot," and I was like, "I think I [00:35:06] can make it home." So I tried to make it home, and it just died on the side of the road. And I was like, [00:35:11] "Buddy, like, like, have you checked your oil and your water and all that [00:35:16] stuff lately?" And he's like, "No." I said, "You got... I mean, it's an older car. You gotta do [00:35:21] that." Oh, yeah, blown head gasket. The engine's full of water. Like, the car's [00:35:26] destroyed. So we, so we blew a motor up last week.Zach: [00:35:31] Wow. So you blew a motor in a truck and a washing machine all in the same week. That's fantastic. [00:35:36] WowCurtis: So welcome to my lifeZach: Um, yes. [00:35:41] Yes. Uh, okay, so welcome to your life. So for anybody that [00:35:46] may or may not know, um, Curtis is a really boring guy. He's always just laying [00:35:51] around. He's never doing anything. Okay, obviously extreme facetiousness [00:35:56] there.Zach: Um, dude, you are not... You're the opposite of that. Um, you're always [00:36:01] busy. What, what are you doing these days? What are you into? What are you getting into?Curtis: [00:36:06] Well, everything involves kids at some level, so I'm trying to, like, paint a picture [00:36:11] here. I think I said it, maybe I didn't, that Edward is coaching the younger kids, and so he and I [00:36:16] coach soccer. So right now, you know, we've got practices and then we've got games, and good [00:36:21] thing we're towards the end of the season. We should be done next week. Uh, we got a championship tonight and then a game [00:36:26] next week, and I think we're done. But two of the kids wanna play basketball, and I'm like, "Oh boy, what's that gonna [00:36:31] look like?" And so I, I haven't made any decisions yet personally yet, but,Curtis: oh, and I coached the little [00:36:36] kids' baseball team this summer, so we literally went from baseball straight into soccer. So we coached [00:36:41] baseball all summer long, and then August rolls around and soccer started, and so I haven't stopped [00:36:46] since, let's see, March? March or April, something like that. So we've [00:36:51] been-- We-- That's, that's just sports. And then Judah plays high school soccer, [00:36:56] and so to try to squeeze his games in. So we're, we're gone almost every, almost every single [00:37:01] night. Let me go through my Curtis: week. I think, that'll help me. That's where I'm struggling to talk to Curtis: [00:37:06] you 'cause I can't go through my week. Yeah, so Mondays, um, in case you didn't know, I'm a grandpa, [00:37:11] which is amazing. And so Lu- Lu Ellen is about [00:37:16] 18 months old. We call her Lulu. Um, she's in Mount Vernon. My kids have, Curtis: um, [00:37:21] my first granddaughter in Mount Vernon, Clay and Curtis: Katie. And, um, so Mondays I [00:37:26] go to Mount Vernon now and I babysit all day. Um, and it's, it's amazing and she's [00:37:31] everywhere. Like this girl is... Yeah, she's amazing. And so I'm Pop Pop. [00:37:36] Uh, I get to be Pop Pop one day a week. Um, so that's Mondays. [00:37:41] Um- ICurtis: have usually [00:37:46] a day of planning a podcast, and then of course Friday we've been doing podcasts now for the last few weeks. And, [00:37:51] and I've actually got podcasts scheduled from now through Christmas, every Curtis: Friday from now through Curtis: Christmas. [00:37:56] And so that's kind of a new job. Like once I, once I got that message of [00:38:01] Michael's, I kind of went all in and I was like, "Okay, we're gonna, we're gonna make this happen." Curtis: [00:38:06] Um, and Zach: you're not, if you're not following or subscribing, you need to, like, today, 'cause there's a lot of good [00:38:11] material coming out over the next couple months. So don't,Curtis: Yeah, there is some really, really good [00:38:16] people. Some, some hard stories, but amazing, amazing people. [00:38:21] Um, Tuesdays. Oh. Curtis: Tuesdays. So those who may or may not know, I'm a car guy, [00:38:26] love cars. I got a couple hot rods and, and so Tuesdays are my day. [00:38:31] I have my buddy John. John Rosenberg comes over every Tuesday and we just work on [00:38:36] cars. That's, that's what we do. And he's so cool because we don't have to talkCurtis: about anything. Like [00:38:41] we're just car dudes. We love cars and we can say dumb things like, "Oh, those rims, they [00:38:46] look amazing," or, "Those tires make that car look so cool," or, "We need to put bigger [00:38:51] rims and tires on that car," or, "Oh man, we need, we need to paint that engine and just make it [00:38:56] pop inside that." Curtis: You know, I mean, we can say dumb stuff.Curtis: Nobody cares. Like, Zach: That's awesome. [00:39:01] That's Curtis: and so, so every Tuesday he comes over about four hours and we just work on [00:39:06] cars and, and we honestly, it's just, it's really, really good. And the kids [00:39:11] know that when they go off to school, they're, they're like, "Here comes John." And, and they're, they're [00:39:16] always like, "So what'd you guys do today?" And you know, and um, anyways, [00:39:21] that's what Tuesdays are, wednesday is typically a catch-up day because I have to [00:39:26] do... I still have, um, I still have a r- a rental business. Uh, I [00:39:31] don't have as many rentals as I used to. When Michael passed away, I sold just about everything. And so [00:39:36] I haveCurtis: to, Zach: to, Curtis: uh, make sure that, you know, work orders and stuff are done, make sure [00:39:41] bills are paid. I go over and check the properties. Um, Edward actually mows and trims a [00:39:46] couple big properties of mine, um, for the rentals as part of his gig too. And so, [00:39:51] so I help him with some of his equipment. In return, he helps by mowing some of those properties. And [00:39:56] so we've, we've kinda got this give and take going. UmCurtis: I don't know. [00:40:01] My brain's a little bit blank right now, but we, I mean, we go pretty hard. [00:40:06] When Michael passed away, I, I sold just about everything. I didn't have the capacity to... [00:40:11] I mean, I couldn't even think straight. And so I didn't know if I would ever get back into [00:40:16] some of the real estate things that I've done, but recently I've kinda started dabbling [00:40:21] again. I'm-- And, and it's all about I love to do it, and I really loved to do it in the [00:40:26] past, but it's kinda back to thatCurtis: whole wh- new you. I just didn't know if I [00:40:31] would Curtis: ever Curtis: be jazzed up about it again. And so I've been dabbling a little bit. Um, [00:40:36] I found a, uh, I found a couple homes that were in an estate, got them [00:40:41] really cheap. I told Edward, I say, "Hey, you want to, um, learn how to flip homes?" And he's like, "Well, [00:40:46] yeah," 'cause he needs to do more than just the landscaping part, especially in the winter. And so [00:40:51] we-- I told him, I said, "Well, if you're in, you gotta be all in." And so I emptied his bank [00:40:56] account. Like I, I was like, "This is not a, this is not a Curt is gonna hand [00:41:01] over. Like you're gonna have to be all in." And so I made him put a big chunk in on this, and I [00:41:06] bought these two homes and, and our, our job this winter was gonna be, you know, gutting [00:41:11] them, cleaning them up. The properties were a disaster. And, um, couple weeks later, [00:41:16] I had to come home and say, "Hey, um, so somebody wants to buy those." And he goes, "Wait a minute. I thought [00:41:21] that was our gig for the winter." And I, I was like, "Well, they are offering us more than we paid for them." He [00:41:26] goes, "Wait a minute. You mean I don't have to do anything and I make money on these [00:41:31] properties?" And I was like, "Yeah." You know, 'cause in my mind, [00:41:36] like totally defeated the purpose.Zach: Be like, "This is not Curtis: So this kid, [00:41:41] so this kid puts money into this deal and makes money and he didn't do anything.[00:41:46] Zach: You're like, "Bud, Curtis: And so Zach: not normally how itCurtis: that's not normal.[00:41:51] Zach: FYI."Curtis: But yeah, a friend was like, "Dude, I really want those properties. I need, [00:41:56] I need work for the winter too, and I know I can do well on them." And, and I was like, "Okay." So we came [00:42:01] up with a number and he bought them. Anyway, so I started dabbling again and, [00:42:06] um, and, and he wants to learn. Edward wants to learn, and [00:42:11] so we will jump back in and do it again probably at some point. And, and I got another big project I'm [00:42:16] working on, but we can, we can talk about that a little bit later because it involves the foundation. But I don't [00:42:21] know, that's what a week looks like in our life. It's busy, but it's all good.Zach: [00:42:26] Okay, so let's jump back to four years just for a second, right? [00:42:31] Today, uh, four years. Um, lots of people tune [00:42:36] in to the Run to the Hard podcast 'cause they're, they're looking. They're looking for answers, [00:42:41] they're looking for hope, they're looking for help. And so, like, what does this look like? You know, you've gone [00:42:46] through year one, year two, year three, year four, and now, now starting [00:42:51] year five.Zach: Wa- walk us, kind of walk us through the path that it's taken you [00:42:56] to, and then, I mean, we kind of highlighted a little bit, but just kind of the new [00:43:01] life as we're jumping into year fiveCurtis: So I wanna, I wanna make sure people [00:43:06] know that this is my story. This doesn't have to be your story.Curtis: Timing is, [00:43:11] timing is so weird in grief. And so I want... [00:43:16] I can give you some benchmarks, I just don't Zach: you you some absolutes, so I wanna clarifyCurtis: before I go [00:43:21] into this. But, you know, for me, year one was, was, you know, the carCurtis: accident, [00:43:26] and I use that as an analogy, like it was total destruction. Like, I use the Curtis: analogy [00:43:31] of Curtis: the kid who, um, has his first deer jump out in front of him and he hits the deer. [00:43:36] He destroys his car and he's on the side of the road destroyed because his car is wrecked, he's [00:43:41] killed this animal, and he's feeling all the things. And that's kinda what year one is [00:43:46] like in grief, especially the death of a, a loved one or your spouse is like, it's just [00:43:51] total destruction. You're just...Zach: yeah.Curtis: I mean, you, you are experiencing [00:43:56] unbelievable grief and hurt and physical pain and, and I had to get a [00:44:01] lot of help. I mean, it took, it took a lot of people to help me get back on my [00:44:06] feet just in that year one. And so... And I've seen people bounce back quicker. I've seen people go to [00:44:11] work right away and I'm like, "How did you do that?" I mean, I laid in bed for three months. I was [00:44:16] destroyed, you know? And so the analogy I love to use for year two is that [00:44:21] same kid, but guess what? He's driving down the road and he's beginning to see the [00:44:26] deer now instead of them just jumping out and you crash. But it still scares you. So [00:44:31] imagine, you know, early on and you... a deer jumps out and you're like, I mean, y- you're still [00:44:36] scared. You still feel the things because of the tragedy you had, the, you know, hitting a deer for the first [00:44:41] time. But I'm now,Curtis: like...Curtis: paying attention. I'm starting to see them. So year two is more, [00:44:46] um, I can start to see the wavesCurtis: come Curtis: and I [00:44:51] can start to brace for the impact because there's dates on the calendar, there's [00:44:56] events, there's, um... Oh man, I remember the first time I picked up [00:45:01] Michal's perfume bottle on the dresser. Holy cow. I, I did not [00:45:06] expect that. It... That smell wrecked me. Like, [00:45:11] that was, that was a tidal wave. So sometimes you can brace for [00:45:16] things, but then the tidal wave comes in. So year two is more about I can brace and see [00:45:21] some of the things, some of the deer out there, but then every once in a while there's a tidal [00:45:26] wave that comes in and just crashes you. And year three for [00:45:31] me, I felt like...[00:45:36] Curtis: well, there was a couple things that were going on. One, I'm building [00:45:41] this relationship with their dad. Like we're be-- It's so weird. We're buds. This guy's calling [00:45:46] me every day. You know, "Hey, I've never raised teenage boys before. Like, how do I do this?"Curtis: So, [00:45:51] you know, he's calling me and so there's this healing in year three that's taking place, like [00:45:56] genuine healing. Healing with a relationship, healing with kids, healing with... [00:46:01] I, I mean, you know how awkward it was to have Michal's [00:46:06] ex-husband talking to me about her and, and things like that?Curtis: Like, [00:46:11] totally Curtis: weird. but but all of that experience [00:46:16] began to help with some of the healing, both in grief, in [00:46:21] relationships with kids, with him. Um, and so I would say year three was the year [00:46:26] of healing, although there was some terrible things that happened. I mean, he [00:46:31] diedCurtis: that year too, but the beginning of that year was just a lot of healing. And so, [00:46:36] and I don't know if you want to talk about his death now or later, but, um, I mean, I [00:46:41] took a tremendous dive when he died because of all the triggers that it, that [00:46:46] it brought about. But I will tell you this, though. I took a deep [00:46:51] dive, but I didn't have to stay there as long. [00:46:56] So I can tell you that even though that happened, um, [00:47:01] it didn't take me a year to begin to recover. Curtis: Now we're dealing with [00:47:06] months. And so when I say a year of healing, I can even relate it to that circumstance [00:47:11] where I just, I felt like year three was more of a year of healing and things were [00:47:16] beginning to feel a little better and I could cope a little better, umZach: And let me put a little [00:47:21] context on it for people at home that haven't been on the phone like you and I have been over all these years and [00:47:26] everything. And I'll, I'll never forget you calling me and you're like, "Dude." [00:47:31] You're like... And for everybody who knows Curtis, that's one of his favorite words. He's like, [00:47:36] "Dude."Zach: He was like, "This is the weirdest thing. I'm at a ball game [00:47:41] with the kids' birth dad. We're both married to the same [00:47:46] woman, and we're standing here talking about life, raising kids as two single dads [00:47:51] raising the same kids, but not in the same..." I was like, "You're right. That's really [00:47:56] weird. That is not normal.Zach: That is a..." So, yeah, for people, again, listening, [00:48:01] tuning in, you're like, you're like, "Oh, I am familiar with not normal." And that's [00:48:06] okay. That's okay. As you can see Curtis laughing now, I mean, like, that laugh that [00:48:11] Curtis has always had, it's al- But it was not the same for a while. And so, [00:48:16] but now, you know, yeah, he's about to talk about year four and some other crazy things that happened [00:48:21] this past year we'll hit in just a second.Zach: But like, like, it takes a while to work through the [00:48:26] weird. Like, I mean, that's just some of it. And then, and then ob- him passing, and [00:48:31] obviously we talked and worked and prayed through all that. But, m- uh, friends, I'm [00:48:36] not sure what stuff you're dealing with. Maybe you wouldn't use the word weird. Um, maybe you'd say [00:48:41] anomaly or kind of a freak situation or whatever.Zach: But like, you're there, you're in it, [00:48:46] and just, like, take a step back, breathe, pause, [00:48:51] and even if you're not a follower of Jesus yet, just be like, "Hey God, I need [00:48:56] some help here."Curtis: YeahZach: Just do it. Just do it. And He will. He will. [00:49:01] What we're seeing, Curtis is right. Like, there isn't some timetable. Okay, at Mar- at month three it's [00:49:06] gonna, you know, then it's time to move to the next phase, and month six and month 12.Zach: It's not like that. [00:49:11] It wasn't like, it wasn't like God was like, "All right, Curtis, you've passed this milestone. Now we're gonna [00:49:16] introduce a new challenge," um, you know, with r- It just, it, it just happened. It just [00:49:21] happened. Curtis: Yeah. Although Curtis: sometimes it feels that way.Zach: 100%. [00:49:26] All right. So that's creeping, that's past about, like, what are we at at that point?Zach: About halfwayCurtis: tell [00:49:31] you Zach: three or a little bit Curtis: yeah, let me tell you a quick story because I don't, again, I don't remember what I've [00:49:36] shared in previous podcasts. My brain, it's working better, but the memory [00:49:41] part, gone. But let me tell you about... So there were so many people, I'm, when [00:49:46] I say so many, I mean hundreds and hundreds of people praying when Michal passed for these [00:49:51] kids. Hundreds and hundreds of people praying for Ron, for the [00:49:56] relationship, praying that he and I somehow... I'm telling you, God answered prayer in the most [00:50:01] amazing, miraculous way. That man who didn't wanna talk [00:50:06] to me, you know, every time I'd call and say, "Can I, hey, can I take the kids to dinner?" I mean, it was [00:50:11] rough. It was hard. Or every time I showed up to a ball game, um, just to be present and try to [00:50:16] see them, like, it took a while. But I'll never forget, uh, I [00:50:21] showed up to a ball game, and of course, the kids always [00:50:26] play with friends, and so there's always these acquaintances that everybody knows. He knows, I know, and so [00:50:31] we're always in close proximity to each other, always, so we just are. And I'll never [00:50:36] forget this one in particular game where I saw him coming. He was beelining [00:50:41] towards me, and I was like, "Oh boy, what is about to happen?" Like, "What have I done now?" You know what I mean?Curtis: [00:50:46] But, but he was determined to talk to me, and he's beelining to me, and he says, "Curz, I gotta talk to you." [00:50:51] And I, I'm a little bit scared, like, "What? I don't... What, about what?" Like, "What do we need to talk about?" And, [00:50:56] and, um, and so, and he's really loud, so you have to know Ron. He's, like, really loud, so there's really nothing [00:51:01] secret. He's like, "Well, let's walk over here because we can talk in private." And I'm thinking, "Talk in private? You're so [00:51:06] loud, everybody hears you anyways."Zach: SecretCurtis: but it doesn't really matter, but we walk away and he's like, "I [00:51:11] just gotta tell you." He said, "God is all over me." And I was [00:51:16] like, "Well, what do you mean, Ron?" He, he says, and I'm not making this stuff up, he says, [00:51:21] he said, "God broke me." And he said, "Ron," he said, "This man [00:51:26] is supposed to be in these kids' lives. I can't explain it," he said, "but [00:51:31] God told me that you're their greatest spiritual influence, and that I gotta get over [00:51:36] myself and let you in and let you help, help me raise these kids." I'm not [00:51:41] making this up. Uh, my mouth hit the floor. I was [00:51:46] like, "What?" And yet I'm not lying, I'm a little skeptical, like, "Wait a minute. [00:51:51] Are,Curtis: is this...?" But from that moment, [00:51:56] he was all in. The phone Curtis: calls started happening. But [00:52:01] for all those people out there that prayed soCurtis: hard for [00:52:06] God to come into this situation, you need to know that it [00:52:11] workedZach: And it's a huge thank you to everyone who has done that. That's [00:52:16] a big hallelujah in, in my book. That's a big, a big praise God[00:52:21] Curtis: Well, it got weirder because now the kids are like, "What is going on?" Like, they were weirded [00:52:26] out by itCurtis: so that's, that's part of year, that's part of year three and, um, [00:52:31] the, just the healing that was going on, and that relationship continued to grow and we were... I [00:52:36] mean, he's gone now and I, I think I can say some of these things, but man, we were talking about how can, [00:52:41] how can he mend his relationship with his oldest daughter? How can he get more [00:52:46] respect from the kids? And, and I mean, I, I would always preference the conversation [00:52:51] by saying, "Permission to speak freely, Ron?" He's like... And then he'd be like, "Well, yeah, [00:52:56] we're friends. That's what, that's what I'm asking for." And I'm like, "I'm just making sure because I, I'm, I'm gonna [00:53:01] say some tough stuff.Zach: Yeah.Curtis: I know some things, you know? I happen to know some things." [00:53:06] And so he, he would let me, and every once in a while one would catch him off guard and he would [00:53:11] start to rile up and get mad, and then he, and then he would... I mean, telling you, this is, this [00:53:16] is God and the wor- power ofCurtis: prayer Curtis: He would start to get riled up and be like, "Oh, sorry. You're [00:53:21] right. Let me listen." Like, and I'm like, "Holy cow." Like, that just [00:53:26] happened. Because if anybody knows him or knew him in the past, not him at all. [00:53:31] Not him at all. And God was at work and doing an amazing work. [00:53:36] And that's why, honestly, at that point, I was like, you know, I'm just helping him to become a good dad. And, [00:53:41] and as much as I love these kids, I'm having to hold them really loosely 'cause I may not have [00:53:46] access to them like I used to. And so year three, there was so much growth and healing and stuff [00:53:51] happening in all of that. Um, and then of course, you know, when he [00:53:56] passed, it was like, holy cow, you wanna talk about some more healing that had to take place. I mean, I [00:54:01] had to learn... Uh, 'cause now I'm, I'm full-time parent, and, and I have [00:54:06] to, I have to l- you know, the kids always say, "Lock in. Lock in."Zach: Yes. Curtis: [00:54:11] I, uh, and it tookCurtis: me,Curtis: I didn't get it all right. Let me just be honest with everybody. I did not get it all right. [00:54:16] But I had to make some really hard decisions in those [00:54:21] first few months with having full-time kids and, and I had to lock in. [00:54:26] And so the question was, is tell us what year one, two, three, and four looks like. So let me finish [00:54:31] that before we kind of get sidetracked again.Curtis: So, you know, this [00:54:36] is the beginning of year five. So year four, there's more tragedies that happen in year four, [00:54:41] but I really began to feel like I was getting mental capacity [00:54:46] back. Curtis: and and for somebody who doesn't know what that means or is struggling to understand my [00:54:51] vocabulary, is that I've always had the ability to manage a lot of [00:54:56] things. Like I could, I could compartmentalize and have [00:55:01] my family box. I could have my business box. I could have my hobby box. I could have my coaching [00:55:06] box, and I could be pretty good at all of them.Curtis: I don't do well mixing [00:55:11] my boxes, but in my box, in those areas, I could be fairly successful. Well, [00:55:16] grief just, there were no boxes. It was just a desolate [00:55:21] wasteland of destruction. And, and I couldn't keep a [00:55:26] thought to save my life, nor manage anything. And so I felt [00:55:31] like year three was some healing. Year four, I began to start get some capacity [00:55:36] back. And, um, I started, you know, trying to [00:55:41] manage our home really well and making that a really big priority, and I s- [00:55:46] I started managing this better and this better. And so, Zach: Hey, tell Zach: people what you, t- tell people [00:55:51] what you did in, with, with the... I remember you talking about this. This is after Ron passed, [00:55:56] and you guys are trying to establish a new normal at the house where you [00:56:01] guys, where the kids lived with you and Michael and everything. And I just remember kind of laughing just as you were kind of like, [00:56:06] "All right. Here we go, team. Here's the structure. This is what we're doing." Tell, tell people some [00:56:11] of the things that you guys did to kind of establish this new normal now.Curtis: Sure. Well, yeah, [00:56:16] 'cause I'm a coach, I can't help it. And so, you know, team references, you know, [00:56:21] this is Team Christopher and Hood now. Like, we, we've gotta get good at this. Like, I'm, I'm a single dad. [00:56:26] We've... We're, we're busier than ever. I, and I would, and I would just tell them, "Guys, I'm not [00:56:31] mom. Like, can I just..." And they're like, "You definitely aren't." [00:56:36] And so it was fun in a way 'cause we could kid around about it, like, [00:56:41] "I'm notCurtis: Mom." And there are some things that she did really well and I'm probably not going to. And, [00:56:46] and so there was this recognition of like, we can have a great home, but it's gonna be different. It's gonna [00:56:51] look different. It's gonna be the way we want it to be. And, and, and I would use a [00:56:56] lot of that vocabulary. And I-- Let me just, let me preference this. It started at prayer time at [00:57:01] night, 'cause we have prayer time at night before we go to bed, and we all pray. We have our long prayer list. But, [00:57:06] but before we have prayer, we go through the week's schedule, the daily [00:57:11] schedule, all the things, and it's during those prayer times where I'm beginning to have these family meetings [00:57:16] and like, "Guys, like I'm, I am struggling. I'm trying to be the [00:57:21] best I can, but I wanna have a great home." And, and so then we started making references. What kind [00:57:26] of home would Mom have or Curtis: had? And they were like... [00:57:31] Well, they're like, "Well, number one, she loved to have people over. And number [00:57:36] two, she loved a clean house. You know, and number three, we all worked hard at it." And I'm like... So [00:57:41] the beauty of saying something like that is I didn't have to make the rules up.Curtis: The rules already were there.[00:57:46] Curtis: We just Curtis: had, we just had to go back and start following them again.Curtis: And so, you know, we, [00:57:51] we started getting really good at, you know, dishes and laundry and keeping things [00:57:56] picked up and the yard work. and Curtis: and once we made it our team, our [00:58:01] home, our Curtis: goals, I, I'll be honest with Curtis: you, it changed Curtis: everything [00:58:06] because there was no complaining about, "Well, he didn't and he didn't," blah, blah, blah. All of a [00:58:11] sudden I'm like, "Hey, I need you to go pick up the sticks," and, "Hey, I need you to take the trash out. Hey, make sure the dishes are done before Curtis: we go to [00:58:16] bed." Curtis: And, and, and I'm pre- Again, back to the capacity... Ooh, this is... Ooh, this actually ties [00:58:21] in. This is good, as it's helping me.Curtis: Um, back to the [00:58:26] capacity thing where I used to be good at managing a lot of things, is that [00:58:31] I'm pre- You know, Mom was not good at this. You know, she'd make some kid do the same job Curtis: over and over and over, and [00:58:36] they'd be like resentful. "Well, he never hasCurtis: to do itCurtis: Well, I could keep a pretty good mental [00:58:41] tally of, "Hey, you need to do dishes tonight because so-and-so did them last night." "Okay." You know, [00:58:46] or, "Hey, I need you to take the trash out. In fact, that's just your job. Like from here on out, you're the trash [00:58:51] guy." Uh, or, "Hey, uh, Wesley and Quinn, um, you're the stick [00:58:56] people. Like every week you gotta go out before we mow and pick all the sticks up in the yard." And, and [00:59:01] so I began to establish these normal rules. Like it's, it's, it comes down [00:59:06] to Training, yes, but it comes down to [00:59:11] helping kids own it. Like, we own this thing now. It is ours. It's [00:59:16] our home, our family, our system, and somehow they got it [00:59:21] this year. And so our home runsCurtis: really, really [00:59:26] well. And I talked to them the other day. I said, "Hey, rate me. Curtis: How am I [00:59:31] doing? Curtis: Like, guys, honestly, be honest with me. I mean, we're trying to have a great Curtis: home." And I said, "What are the things you Curtis: [00:59:36] like? What are the things you Curtis: don't? And what am, what am I failing Curtis: at?" And, um, three [00:59:41] things came out. Number one, the kids said, "Well, number one, Mom loved to have Curtis: company. We love to have Curtis: company." [00:59:46] And we have a kid here, I'm not lying to you, almost every night there's somebody here, [00:59:51] usually spending the night.Curtis: So I said, "So help me, because what do you love the most [00:59:56] about it?" And, and one of the older kids said, I can't remember which one said, "Well, number one, because we run [01:00:01] our home so well now that we're never embarrassed. Like, it's always kept up [01:00:06] enough that any mom or kid or somebody can come over and we..." And, and [01:00:11] so that's, th- that's them owning it. And so our home is what Michal always had it, which [01:00:16] was it is the fun home. It's the place where people want to come and people want to go. And, and, And, [01:00:21] that's not me, by the way. You need to know that when it comes to my home and when I'm tired and when I'm at home, I don't want [01:00:26] to be around people. But Michal loved to have people here, and theCurtis: kids love [01:00:31] people. And so she-- and so there's always people here. There's always moms stopping [01:00:36] in, you know, normally to pick up their kids, but of course, they always stop in and chat and talk and, [01:00:41] and, um, I'm sorry, we're way off track, but this is really good. [01:00:46] Judah does a Bible study with his high school, um, classmates on Friday nights. [01:00:51] I never got to Fridays. And so there's a, a train of cars that [01:00:56] line up on Friday night as they're picking up their kids from Bible study from our house on Friday nights. Curtis: How [01:01:01] cool is That And sometimes they end up staying the night or [01:01:06] sometimes they go later, "Hey, can we stay and watch, you know, the Guardians in the tournament or whatever?" And[01:01:11] Curtis: I'm like, yeah, sure. Not a problem." And, and so, and so that's a [01:01:16] picture of our home now that we all own it. It's not just my [01:01:21] vision or my dream. Curtis: You know, a lot of this was Mom that she instilled in them, and it took [01:01:26] my capacityZach: Yeah.Curtis: To be able to put it back out in front of [01:01:31] them and make these things begin to happen. And that's all happened this year, by the wayZach: Yeah, and I was [01:01:36] thinking, you know, for anybody listening right now, watching, you're just kind of like, you're like, "Yeah, that's like a [01:01:41] decade away from me or something like that." And I, and I get that. We get that. But maybe, I just, I don't [01:01:46] know, I just felt kind of tugged on this. Maybe there's one thing that...[01:01:51] Zach: What's one little thing that you could instill in your life, in your schedule this week, someone [01:01:56] listening today, just, just one thing that you just need to establish some [01:02:01] routine?Zach: You make that little choice, and then the next morning you're like, "Oh, I did that. [01:02:06] Okay, I can do the next thing." And maybe that's all it is. It's just the first domino,Curtis: But Curtis: that Curtis: is [01:02:11] the life of a griever. That is the life of a griever. I'm just telling you, it is the life [01:02:16] because figuring out what the one thing is that I can do today, and it might literally be [01:02:21] walking out to a mailbox and getting the mail. Curtis: It literally might be driving your vehicle into [01:02:26] town to get a gallon of milk. And, and when you're a first a griever, that sounds [01:02:31] so easy, but is the hardest thing in the world to get in your vehicle and drive into town for the first time. [01:02:36] Miserable. And, and it... And that is the life of a griever, starting with the first thing [01:02:41] and then the second thing and then the third thing. And again, again, I wanna paint the picture. This [01:02:46] is year four going into year five. It's taken us this long to get our act together and to really [01:02:51] start humming. And I'm not perfect. You guys need to know that I'm... I get it wrong, but I [01:02:56] am quick to make it right. Oh, man, I wanna... I don't wanna miss this [01:03:01] opportunity. Prayer time. If you're not having it, have it. Let me tell you, let me tell [01:03:06] you why. Obvi- There's the obvious. If you can Curtis: squeeze a [01:03:11] devotional in, yeah. If you, if you can squeeze a devotional or Bible in, perfect, [01:03:16] but I'm just telling you, for us, with, you know, four kids plus me, just getting through [01:03:21] the schedule and prayer time, um, is a lot. And so, um, [01:03:26] we, we... Anyways, we have Bible studies. Quinn's in a Bible study. Judah's in a [01:03:31] Bible study. We have two youth groups that we're in. Like, we're s- we're just saturated [01:03:36] in the Word. We constantly... And they go to a Christian school. Like, that's what the Bible says. When you, when [01:03:41] you lay down, when you wake up, when you walk about the streets, you know, the Word of God should be present and in your life. And [01:03:46] so that's my motto is raising kids, and so we've got that kind of structure constantly [01:03:51] all the time. But prayer time, why is it so important? Number one, the connection. [01:03:56] Michal loved prayer time because she loved that time at the end of the day where she could just [01:04:01] laugh and talk and, you know, get that vibe from her kids. I... That wasn't [01:04:06] me. I just wanted to go to bed. I'm like, "Get this thing over with."Zach: Yeah, yeahCurtis: I've had to [01:04:11] change. God has had to help me change to be, like, present in that moment, so it [01:04:16] forces me to be present. Second, it gives us that opportunity to talk about life, what's going on [01:04:21] in your lives. And then our prayer list is huge. And so because of our tragedies, [01:04:26] we are very sensitive to the tragedies around us, and so we literally, you know, with [01:04:31] five of us, when Ella was home, it was six of us, but with five of us praying, you know, we can cover a lot of [01:04:36] territory. And so, "Hey, you pray for the Waugh family. Hey, you pray for the Tripp [01:04:41] family. Hey, you pray for Annalise. Hey, you pray for..." Are you with me? And we just, we [01:04:46] just bust it out. And so, you know, super, super powerful [01:04:51] that we get this little family meeting time, but then we get our prayer time. But Here's where I was [01:04:56] going. Did you know that you can't have messed up during the day [01:05:01] as a parent and then have a successful prayer time at night?Curtis: It's [01:05:06] impossible to have messed up, said something you shouldn't, [01:05:11] overreacted, got angry, and then have a successful prayer time at night. [01:05:16] Not possible.Curtis: And soCurtis: it forces you to be like, [01:05:21] "Guys, I messed up today. I'm sorryCurtis: Hey, what I said to you last night, I need [01:05:26] forgiveness for." And, and, and I'm telling you, the [01:05:31] temperature in the room was just like And we go to bed that [01:05:36] night and all slates are clean. It's, it's the bestZach: so we're [01:05:41] getting into year five. We're gonna pivot here in just a second and talk about the foundation [01:05:46] and... 'Cause that's, that's a big part of what Run to the Heart is pushing toward, [01:05:51] right?Zach: With us helping as many people as possible. And, and that it's only [01:05:56] possible by many hands making light work, right? And so anybody, everybody getting [01:06:01] involved in that. And you'll have the opportunity to hear from Curtis about that in a second. But there was one [01:06:06] other significant moment that kind of sprang up this [01:06:11] past year, very unexpected for you.Zach: Um, and it just really [01:06:16] triggered my brain. All this conversation we've been having about dads and relationships, [01:06:21] um, something really significant popped up in your life. Do you, do you want to talk about that at all before we jump [01:06:26] to the foundation?Curtis: I don't know [01:06:31] Tell, tell him Zach: Somewhere Curtis: there[01:06:36] Zach: So for those of you that, uh, maybe you haven't been listening to the whole thing, if you're [01:06:41] just tuning in, we've been talking about relationships, and restoration, and healing, and stuff that dads are doing [01:06:46] crazy things. Two single dads raising the same kids but in different houses and all that.Zach: All these [01:06:51] things and these lessons we're trying to teach kids. Well, a l- many of you may not know, um, [01:06:56] Curtis didn't have that most of his life, uh, growing up, [01:07:01] uh, learning these lessons. And then in the middle of all this, just this [01:07:06] past spring, Curtis gets word that his biological dad [01:07:11] had passed away.Curtis: Mm-hmmZach: been in all this healing and grieving.Zach: And [01:07:16] dude, when you got the word... Well, a couple of things. First, how did you hear about this? [01:07:21] Um, and two, what happened in your heart when that, when, when you [01:07:26] got that news?Curtis: Um [01:07:31] Just a, a quick snippet.Zach: Snippets ofCurtis: my dad was a rough [01:07:36] character. Had been a VietnamCurtis: vet, Curtis: gotten involved in anything you Curtis: can [01:07:41] possibly do as far as women and drugs and alcohol and cheating and lying and stealing and [01:07:46] all the things. And, and, um, my Curtis: mom put my little sister and myself Curtis: in [01:07:51] a little VW Bug when I was six, I think, and we, we basically drove away [01:07:56] with the shirts on our back. Like, that's what we did. And, um, it was a rough situation. [01:08:01] Um, I've told some of this story before. And so, um, she wanted me to have a [01:08:06] relationship with my dad, so she tried real hard for us to continue to have something, but he was, [01:08:11] he was a rough character. So when I got to the age of, I don't know, [01:08:16] teenager, it was like, "I don't, I don't want that." And so I, I began to make the decision [01:08:21] not to have a relationship. And over the years, I've had interaction with him, but once I got to be an adult and [01:08:26] have kids of my own and stuff, I really put the brakes on and said I just-- He, he's not the [01:08:31] kind of influence I want in our home. And so you just need to know that, that part of it. And so [01:08:36] over the years, um, as an adult, I've learned to forgive [01:08:41] him. I mean, this is a guy that, you know, he never paid child support. He never helped his kids, helped my mom. He [01:08:46] just, he just didn't. He lived his own life. Curtis: Um, Zach: Um,Curtis: and so over the [01:08:51] years, ICurtis: would get a phone call every once in a while, "Hey, man, really sorry. I've, I've screwed up. I've [01:08:56] not been the dad I needed to be," and so forth. And I remember the first time I ever said, "Hey, Dad, it's okay. I [01:09:01] forgive you." Like, this this weight finally lifted. And I was... Curtis: I mean, I'm, [01:09:06] I'm, I might even be in my 40s by that point, 'cause I think in my 30s I was still struggling [01:09:11] with this. But then every year or Curtis: two, I Curtis: get that same phone call, and I, I [01:09:16] always Curtis: imagined he was coming out of a drug binge or something like that and had a cognitive [01:09:21] moment and was feeling all the things, and so he, he would call me. So over the years, I would get those [01:09:26] calls, and I would c- or I would remind him, "Dad, I've already forgiven you for that. It's okay. [01:09:31] It's okay." And, um Um, [01:09:36] in May, I get a phone call, [01:09:41] um The woman on the other end says, [01:09:46] um, "Sir, this is, um, so-and-so from the [01:09:51] sheriff's department in such and such county in Michigan. Um, do you know a [01:09:56] Curtis Christopher?" And I said, "Ma'am, I, I am Curtis Christopher." "Oh, sir, do you know a Curtis [01:10:01] Christopher Sr.?" And I was like, "Yeah, he's my dad." And she said, um, [01:10:06] I don't know if he knew that or not. I'm a junior. I don't, I don't ever go by it. But, [01:10:11] um, she said, "Well, I'm, I'm really sorry to let you know, but your, your dad has passed away." And I was like, [01:10:16] "Okay. Well, how the, how did that happen? What, what happened?" And she's like, "Well, sir, [01:10:21] apparently your, your dad was in a, um, kind of a nursing home [01:10:26] situation and passed away with [01:10:31] no family contacts, no emergency contacts, [01:10:36] and nobody knew who he was, and it's taken me 30 [01:10:41] days to track his family down, and your dad's been sitting in our morgue for 30 days, and I [01:10:46] finally was able to track down his sister and you."Curtis: And I was like, "What?" [01:10:51] She's like, "Yeah, I'm really sorry." And I'm like, "So my dad, you know, because of the[01:10:56] Curtis: lifestyle that he chose all those years of, you know, drugs and, and whatever, [01:11:01] um, at the age of 79, died with nobody [01:11:06] nobody.Curtis: The first thing is, is you're like, "Should I have [01:11:11] done something different?" You know, "Should I have been there? Curtis: Should I have..." That's your first thought. And, [01:11:16] and I alway-- So just so you know, I've always Curtis: prayed, Lord, if there's something I need to do more [01:11:21] for my dad, just, just put that on my heart. I'm willing to do whatever." Because He also [01:11:26] knew my heart that I didn't wanna allow, allow that kind of garbage into my home and [01:11:31] life because Curtis: it was, it was, it was bad stuff.Zach: Yep.Curtis: [01:11:36] And so He knew my heart, but He also knew that I would be willing. My sisters kept a relationship with him [01:11:41] on and off through the years, but the thing is, my dad got to the point where he pushed everybody away, and he even pushed [01:11:46] my sister away. She didn't even know where he was at. And so this life that he was living late in his [01:11:51] age, like was so awful that he had pushed everybody away. And so I [01:11:56] remember,Curtis: um, thinking, "Man." Now what you don't know is my [01:12:01] dad grew up in a Nazarene pastor's home, [01:12:06] and he knew the way. So this is not a situation where he didn't know. He knew, and [01:12:11] this is the lifestyle he had chosen. And so I, um, recently came [01:12:16] to this conclusion. I was like, "You know what? He did know the way, [01:12:21] and just, just maybe, all I can pray and hope for is just [01:12:26] maybe that he had a thief on the cross moment." I'm just... I don't Curtis: know. [01:12:31] That's my hope. Curtis: That, Curtis: that's my hope. Zach: I Curtis: And so [01:12:36] I haven't worked through all of it yet. Honestly, the, my life is [01:12:41] pretty wild and I probably haven't allowed myself to really Curtis: process that. Um, [01:12:46] because to process it and to go there Curtis: means I have to dive into things that I just don't really wanna [01:12:51] dive into. I mean, I know for a fact that I had some cousins living with him and they're all [01:12:56] doing Curtis: drugs Curtis: together. True story. Uh, I know that they were probably stealing from [01:13:01] him, and who knows what happened to his benefits and things like that. And people are like, "Well, you're his son. You [01:13:06] should go figure it out." And I'm like, "I don't want to. I don't wanna go there." You know, I just, [01:13:11] I just don't want to. So I don't know. Obviously I haven't Curtis: dealt with all of it yet, [01:13:16] butCurtis: that's, that's the story, and I'm just [01:13:21] processing. Yeah.Zach: Well, and you, you know this. Every- [01:13:26] everybody listening, you know, we try to, we try to get to the healing and the growth and all the things, but [01:13:31] stuff still happens in life. I mean, it's, we said early on, it's, it's real life. It's real [01:13:36] people. And so it's another season of like, okay, in our, [01:13:41] in our circles, I think we...Zach: All right, it's a new season of learning to lean on God in a different way, [01:13:46] in a new way. Um, and it was funny. I was thinking like, [01:13:51] um, okay, we're about to talk about the foundation, but it was interesting [01:13:56] because the word, it's been bouncing around in my head for a little bit now. Like, foundation's a funny word, 'cause [01:14:01] that's really what we've been talking about.Zach: What kind of foundation is [01:14:06] being laid? What kind of foundation was laid in your life? Well, you know, and thanks to your mom, [01:14:11] who is an amazing woman, and, and stepped down. She was like, "Nope, I'm, [01:14:16] I'm leaving these kids to Jesus no matter what it takes." And, and, and she's been there all this time, [01:14:21] all, all these years for you, and supporting and loving, and she's amazing.Zach: Um, [01:14:26] but then the foundation, you got to decide how are you gonna do it with your kids, and then [01:14:31] how are you gonna do it with Michal's kids, and with Ron, and then without Ron. And then like, it's just this constant [01:14:36] foundation laying, which is really interesting because I'm like, okay, now here we are [01:14:41] talking about the foundation, the Run to the Heart foundation,[01:14:46] Zach: and Zach: it's really a foundation for real peopleZach: who are dealing [01:14:51] with really hard things, and we wanna be able to help you and help [01:14:56] them.Zach: But people listening to this podcast today, God is maybe already stirring something in your heart and your [01:15:01] life. And so Curtis, talk to us about the foundation, and about what's happening, and how people can jump in and [01:15:06] help.Curtis: Yeah. So when Michal passed away, um, I'd already thought [01:15:11] it once, but I remember her dad and her family were like, "We just, we really wanna do something for Michal. We [01:15:16] wanna, uh, create some legacy." You know, she was this amazing person. She was the glue for [01:15:21] that family. That's a huge family. But they'll admit to you, she was the glue. She [01:15:26] was the person that held that thing together and, and her influence on, on her family, her [01:15:31] children, all of herCurtis: friendsCurtis: And, and the part that a lot of people don't know is the, [01:15:36] the side ministry that she had on her own ministering to, to women.Curtis: And, and those of [01:15:41] you who are out there who were Curtis: part of that, where she was the first one to respond to a, to a wife Curtis: [01:15:46] who lost a kid. She was the first one to respond to a woman going through a divorce. She was the [01:15:51] first one. I Curtis: mean, she just was that way.Curtis: And so because ofCurtis: [01:15:56] how she operated, I knew that we wanted to do something to honor [01:16:01] her, and I thought, what better than to just literally help people coming out of tragedy and get [01:16:06] back on their feet? And so we, we started the Michal Foundation, the kids and I did, and I did the whole,Curtis: [01:16:11] getting all the paperwork and the documents and the tax code and all that kind of stuff done. And it's [01:16:16] been slow going at first, but since we've, um, kind of [01:16:21] relaunched, the needs are great. I mean, I could tell you so [01:16:26] many stories of, of, of disasters that are happening. For example, a missionary family [01:16:31] just came off the field in our church, and of course missionaries don't have a lot of, lot of money, [01:16:36] and dad died of a heart attack. Three teenage kids, mom is by herself [01:16:41] raising three kids, and not only that, they had just moved his family in with them who were [01:16:46] sickly, and he passes away from a heart attack. And so mom's left with [01:16:51] raising three teenagers and sickly in-laws. And I'm like, "What in the world?" [01:16:56] And so I've been, um, trying to raise a salary. And so we've committed a [01:17:01] monthly portion of our, our, uh, foundation money towards her salary, and [01:17:06] then I've been getting other people to help, um, put into that fund as well. And so that's just [01:17:11] one. Um, um, getting ready to give a check [01:17:16] to a retired age woman who had been taking care of her cerebral palsy [01:17:21] son his whole life. And dad had left when the kids were little. Curtis: She worked a bus [01:17:26] driver job for a while, but because she was the caretaker for her son, he just passed away at like [01:17:31] 45, um, she was getting some state money for being his caretaker. [01:17:36] GoneZach: Thought.Curtis: I mean, just think about it, [01:17:41] like 62 years old, nothing. AndZach: Wow.[01:17:46] Curtis: I mean, I could just tell you story after story after story like that, and I'm like, "Man, God, you [01:17:51] gotta help me." And so one of the big reasons we relaunched the podcast was that we could get in front of people again [01:17:56] and say, "Man, there are terrific needs." And I think over the last just couple months, two or three months, we've [01:18:01] given, I don't know, 12, 15 grand away, something like that, just in these [01:18:06] circumstances. And so I would love to someday, um, [01:18:11] maybe somebody leaves us an estate or something like that where we can start an endowment. [01:18:16] But right now we are just hand-to-mouth. As the money comes in, we're giving itCurtis: away, and [01:18:21] that's how I'm gonna operate until the Lord makes it bigger or something else happens. But right now, money comes in, we [01:18:26] give it away. And so that's what the Curtis: foundation is doing. And so I'm trying to be creative. I'm trying Curtis: [01:18:31] to, uh, get people on board. I just did this this week. Um, I'm doing a [01:18:36] fundraiser called, um, Coffee With MichaelZach: Mm. Love [01:18:41] it.Curtis: Coffee with Michal, and I got black... Michal's favorite colors were black and white. I [01:18:46] mean, favorite colors. And so I had a mug made with Run to the Heart on it. [01:18:51] And, um, and, and we'll just put this out there now that, um, for any first time [01:18:56] donation of $50 orCurtis: more, uh, to the foundation, you know, when you go [01:19:01] into runtotheheart.com/give, you have to put in your, you know, [01:19:06] debit/credit card information, you have to put your address, email, and all that in. And so I [01:19:11] have your address, so make sure you get it right. But I have your name and your address. And for [01:19:16] any, for any first time gift of $50 or more, we're gonna send you a [01:19:21] Run to the Heart mug. And, uh, to help us, to help us with our Coffee with [01:19:26] Michal fundraiser. And guys, these dollars are just going out to help people. I'm just... [01:19:31] That's what they're doing. And so we've got that. Um, we've got some T-shirts. I'm gonna bring some of those up. [01:19:36] I did, I did have this made 'cause I'm gonna see if, if this is gonna be of interest to anybody yet. [01:19:41] But I got my Run to the, I got my Run to the Heart ball cap, and I'm gonna start wearing it around [01:19:46] town and just... The kids, obviously, the boys are like, "But we want a flat bill, and we want..." You knowCurtis: what [01:19:51] I mean? So kids, kids who wear a hat today have very specific wants and needs. But [01:19:56] if this gets any, if this gets any traction, literally I can have them Curtis: made up and, and, I'll get [01:20:01] those out to people. So these are simple things. Yeah, these are simple things that we're trying to [01:20:06] raise some money. Um, I'm not ready to, to launch this yet, but let me tell you [01:20:11] one more quick thing, and it's a, it's a, it's a big dream. Is, um, [01:20:16] I've always had, like, this little cabin up north that, you know, has been my healing place and, [01:20:21] and, uh, the... My family's so big now. I mean, with my in-law kids, I'm, I'm 10 deep. I [01:20:26] got 10 kids now. And so we have to have a big place to go when we celebrate [01:20:31] vacations or or Thanksgiving or Christmas and stuff. So I don't have that place [01:20:36] anymore, and so I was looking for something local that had property, [01:20:41] cabins, big space. And so I was able to, at a good price, buy, um, a [01:20:46] 25-acre property that had multiple cabins on it. And I wanted to use it for our family, but [01:20:51] I also wanted to help pay for it by doing Airbnb and Vrbo and stuff. Curtis: So that comes back to [01:20:56] my four-year capacity. I'm starting to c- get capacity for this again. But guys, that wasn't [01:21:01] my real dream. My real dream was how cool would it be to be able to send [01:21:06] a griever a husband and wife who lost a kid, a young [01:21:11] family who needs a weekend away, a place to go and just... And it's beautiful. It's got [01:21:16] a stocked pond you can fish out of. It's got walking trails. It's really, really [01:21:21] cool. And so, um, I'm only sharing that, I don't have all the details yet, 'cause we're still [01:21:26] working on it. We're, we're doing some updates to the property, and I'm getting all of the [01:21:31] short-term rental, um, paperwork and, and licenses and stuff done. And, and so, [01:21:36] um, I'm, I'm going for the fences, dreaming big. How can the foundation [01:21:41] really, really help people?Zach: Mm-hmm. Mm. Well, I, I, uh, [01:21:46] Curtis didn't ask me to say any of this, what I'm about to say, just so everybody knows. Um, uh, in [01:21:51] these kind of moments, everybody, you know, we're, you know, we've, we've talked about the feels, we've talked [01:21:56] about the hard things, we've talked about some things maybe you didn't want to talk about.Zach: We, and, you know, [01:22:01] covering the bases today, doing some recap. But right now, um, if you're listening, would you just, [01:22:06] would you just do it? Take a step of faith. Um, just jump out there. Give at [01:22:11] least 50. Um, you have no idea... You'll probably never meet those people that [01:22:16] these dollars are gonna go to. If you haven't noticed, we're not in some bougie studios somewhere.Zach: [01:22:21] We're not, you know, this, uh, we're, we're just doing this because it's the right thing to do. [01:22:26] Um, and so whatever you give is just going to those folks. So today, what if [01:22:31] we had, I mean, if you're listening right now, would you just do it? I mean, what if, I mean, Curtis, what if we had [01:22:36] 100 people from this podcast, at least 50 bucks?Zach: Some of you, you [01:22:41] know who you are, you can add a space to that. You can make it 100, you can make it 500. Some of you [01:22:46] out there could write 1,000. I, uh, the point isn't about the dollar amount, it's [01:22:51] about all of us getting in on this, and you kind of responding to that nudge. Um, [01:22:56] so would you just, would you just do it today?Zach: Um, and in case you're wondering, no, this, this [01:23:01] cheesy, nerdy guest host doesn't get a penny of it either. It's, that's, it has nothing to do with [01:23:06] that. It all has to do with helping people, um, on their path to [01:23:11] healing, because who knows where their year four is gonna land? Who knows where that [01:23:16] capacity is gonna land?Zach: But you can actively today, right now, [01:23:21] be a part of helping them to write their story, and that chapter specifically about [01:23:26] starting to live in healing and this new normal, whatever that even means, [01:23:31] and what that looks like, and people can live into the purpose that God has for them. So [01:23:36] Yeah Curtis, you want to say about that?Curtis: no作物各式[01:23:41] чники,妈黎зиру on. Well Y le, ,erd more [ . S tragen lot [01:23:46] May, Ssofar under here- eeahmm "law Sпециа- un/ury jcuando沉默. Con [01:23:51] ramb B� in.Итак '. Le-身,mo : epoca.для Brown get coraziest last, [01:23:56] o m1. otr- o ,сні ni. столько W来到了[01:24:01] ילו Y. Y.eea смотрите, inCurtis: ,律 d Sсні. . 哭 LaCaso, Hinn [01:24:06] pure :oser-ins.ഡ്сні. T北京市 person, шьaffimb to/甚 o [01:24:11] eb<兴 in Un L o sane,只见 Public cetera..湾 [01:24:16] chellers: f. recyclableвающий-ア尊кать e比亚--iar ins, [01:24:21] столькоots... ,mo - Jy-ক ldigt睡ёмвидizmHun Sassi that dкция睡[01:24:26] リビング盘iestзироватьantsanj согласо L LGB.itam. [01:24:31] e...Zach: So say it again, where do they go to jump in, in [01:24:36] today?Curtis: Um, first of all, it'll be in the show notes as well, um, but it's [01:24:41] runtothehard.com/give. And then if you go to runtothehard.com, at the bottom of every page, you can put your [01:24:46] email in and get newsletters, updates on podcasts coming out, and all those kinds of things [01:24:51] tooZach: So this has been good. It has, it has been long. Thanks for hanging out with us to [01:24:56] this point, uh, everyone. Um, but as we, as we wrap this up, as we put a bow on this [01:25:01] today, this day, uh, of remembering, how do you want people to remember Michal [01:25:06] and this legacy that she's left?Curtis: Um, [01:25:11] I actually thought of this this morning when I, when I woke up. [01:25:16] Um, her oldest daughter, Ella, obviously [01:25:21] she'd been through a lot. She's the oldest. She, you know, she has [01:25:26] seen things from a, from a different perspective. And so, um, Ella is not as, [01:25:31] um, outgoing, open. She's not gonna be the one that's gonna share with you. We [01:25:36] did get her to do a, a podcast episode, so if you ever get a chance to watch Ella's episode,Curtis: [01:25:41] phenomenal. It's unbelievable. Anyways, Curtis: her senior [01:25:46] year, um, after mom passed away, she was asked to write a, a, a report, [01:25:51] kind of a biographical report, something [01:25:56] like that. And I remember, um, she was so stressed out about it, and she said, "Hey, will you come [01:26:01] read this for me? 'Cause I think I'm gonna talk about mom," which blew me away, 'cause that's not her at [01:26:06] all. I'd love to, and I... Guys, phew [01:26:11] I sobbed. [01:26:16] Number one, I couldn't believe how [01:26:21] good it was. And, and, and I'm telling you, it had to be spirit [01:26:26] written because it's so powerful. And this morning I was like, "I know what I [01:26:31] wanna do to end this episode. I- if I can do it, if I can get through it, I wanna read [01:26:36] you Ella's report that she wrote for schoolZach: [01:26:41] Um,Curtis: in regards to the ICU room that Michal was in."[01:26:46] Zach: Please Curtis: And Curtis: so I'm a try to get through this and then, um, yeah, then, then let's close it out because honestly, [01:26:51] after this we don't have to say anything. It's just, it's that good.Zach: Yeah Curtis: um, so [01:26:56] Michal's oldest daughter, Ella, writes, "Room 1150, [01:27:01] please. I spoke into the hall monitor for what felt like the millionth [01:27:06] time that week. I waited a few moments before I heard a familiar click. [01:27:11] I watched as the electronic door swung open, allowing me into what [01:27:16] begrudgingly I called Death Hallway, formerly known as Intensive Care [01:27:21] Unit. I walked down the hall, carefully keeping my [01:27:26] eyes glued to the greasy speckled floor so as not to accidentally glance into [01:27:31] any of the passing rooms. I stopped when I reached Room [01:27:36] 1150. My head swam and my stomach felt weak. [01:27:41] I stopped to look through the glass door, a door that had become the window to the world [01:27:46] [01:27:51] A window to [01:27:56] the world that I was about to loseZach: Um[01:28:01] Curtis: I stared at the figure lying in the [01:28:06] bed. Her face was sickly yellow now. Her [01:28:11] skin, usually smooth and silky, was now sagging and wrinkled [01:28:16] A reassuring light [01:28:21] behind her blue eyes. She turned her head slowly when she [01:28:26] saw me and offered a weak smile. I quickly slid the door open and did my best to paint [01:28:31] a smile over the oceans of tears that were threatening to spill over. [01:28:36] "How are you feeling today, Mom?" [01:28:41] Room 1150, the number that is imprinted on my heart like a terrible stain [01:28:46] that can never be wiped away. As a Christian, I would tell you that room [01:28:51] 1150 is a sacred room. The place where my mother's... Ooh, man. [01:28:56] The place where my mother's soul was carried up into heaven to meet her savior. [01:29:01] But in my grief [01:29:06] But in my grief, my heart would prefer to say it's the door behind which the vapor of life ran [01:29:11] dry [01:29:16] The point [01:29:21] where a soul was ripped from Earth, leaving a lifeless body behind. [01:29:26] I sat in the dark of that sacred room for [01:29:31] many days, listening to the steady beat of monitors, the hustle of [01:29:36] nurses stepping in and out, the quiet chatter of visitors sometimes sitting in [01:29:41] an uncomfortable, musty hospital chair, [01:29:46] but often just standing quietly in the side - because there wasn't enough [01:29:51] room. I observed as this sickly forty-three-year-old woman that I had the [01:29:56] privilege of calling my mother for so long, embraced each new visitor with [01:30:01] warmth and compassion. Despite being too ill to even eat, selfishly I was [01:30:06] angry by the nonstop rotation of visitors. I felt that they were stealing [01:30:11] away precious time that did not belong to them, and my resentment only [01:30:16] grew as the days and hours and minutes slowly slipped away from my grasp. [01:30:21] Despite her circumstances, my mom held onto unwavering hope [01:30:26] She knew that she was going to die, but the hope of heaven [01:30:31] was written all over her heart, and it impacted every person that walked [01:30:36] into that room. There was an older woman named Mrs. Valentine who worked [01:30:41] in the night shift. She was the cleaning lady. My [01:30:46] mom began to talk with her about heaven. She told Mrs. Valentine how [01:30:51] excited she was to enter eternity, how sure of it she was. They formed an [01:30:56] unlikely friendship, a 43-year-old woman with just a few days left on this earth and a [01:31:01] night shift janitor with most of her lifetime ahead of her. "Everything is [01:31:06] going to work out just fine for you, Miss Michal," she said. "Just fine." [01:31:11] Such a strange and powerful words to say to someone who only [01:31:16] has days left on this earth, but true nonetheless, [01:31:21] and they both knew it [01:31:26] She continued to share the [01:31:31] hope that she had with any person who would listen, the nurses, her friends, her [01:31:36] parents, her siblings, and me. A friend called the hospital business office [01:31:41] and asked if they knew about the woman on the 11th floor, and the woman [01:31:46] replied, "Everybody in this entire building knows about the woman on the 11th floor."[01:31:51] Zach: I don't knowCurtis: She's the one who can't wait to go to heaven [01:31:56] As I watched these interactions, I [01:32:01] wonder what my response would be if it were I who was slowly dying in a hospital [01:32:06] bed. Would I be intently concerned with the conditions of others or think only of [01:32:11] myself in the few days I had left to live? Would I be so un- [01:32:16] unashamedly confident in the unfailing love of Christ to carry me through the death and into life [01:32:21] everlasting? This question haunted me. I always believed in God, but her peace [01:32:26] showed me just how real He really was.Curtis: A peace so [01:32:31] sweet and gentle as hers in the face of death [01:32:36] could only be from the divine. In a rare moment when there were no [01:32:41] visitors or nurses in the room, I asked her a question I had de- been desperately wanting to [01:32:46] know. I knew it might be the only chance I had left. [01:32:51] "How are you so sure that God hears you, Mom?" My voice [01:32:56] trembled and my throat tightened as I tried to keep my tears from spilling over. She smiled. "That's faith, [01:33:01] Ella [01:33:06] [01:33:11] Believing that God will do what He [01:33:16] said When I first found out my diagnosis, I was so scared. [01:33:21] But now my incredibly reality has settled in. Don't take this the wrong [01:33:26] way, but I might even be disappointed if God decided to heal me [01:33:31] Heaven is going to be so [01:33:36] good [01:33:41] As I walked out of those hospital doors for the last time, [01:33:46] it seemed as though I was emerging from a dark pit, surprised to find that the sun [01:33:51] was still shining, the birds were still chirping, and even though mine had stopped, the rest of [01:33:56] the world was still spinning To-- Who [01:34:01] writes this stuff?Zach: It's [01:34:06] amazingCurtis: me or 85, make sure you live them [01:34:11] well, she said. Those were the marching orders my mom left with me. And in [01:34:16] those moments, I felt the weight of both life and death branded to my [01:34:21] soul. Life was not as it had seemed before. It was not an endless [01:34:26] cycle of going through the motions as I had once believed it to be. It was just [01:34:31] a vapor, a vapor with an eternal [01:34:36] purpose.

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